Ep68. Chaske Haverkos: Immersive Art, A.I. & Illuminating Possibility

[00:00:00] Chaske: The opportunity to work on Music Hall is just such an honor. That is, you know, historically, a building that’s been a part of so many of our lives. It has been a staple of the Cincinnati skyline in that area, you know, has such great history. And I think as a result, you know, it requires a huge amount of care and consideration and thought because I think, you know, when I tell people what site I’m working on, they’re kind of like, “Oh my gosh, that’s incredible.”

[00:00:25] Chaske: And, and I feel that times 10, I think, with the responsibility and the feeling of really wanting to, you know, just swing for the fences and do kind of the absolute best you can.

[00:00:37] Helen: Cincinnati is showing how a city can become a canvas of possibility, illuminating art’s power to bring communities together to collectively experience wonder, and awe.

[00:00:49] Helen: Our guest today is Chaske Haverkos, director, motion designer, 3d animator, and immersive artist. He’s one of four artists selected to illuminate Music Hall, which is not only a historic and iconic building in Cincinnati, but also the biggest canvas during Blink. Taking place October 17th through 20th.

[00:01:12] Helen: For its fourth edition, Blink is a breathtaking, four night, free public festival that transforms Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky into a vibrant, open air, immersive gallery. As the nation’s largest light, art, and projection mapping experience, Blink welcomes over 2 million visitors to experience 80 stunning installations brought to life by local and international artists in an exhibition space spanning 30 city blocks.

[00:01:46] Helen: Cincinnati was also named the number one city in the United States for street art by USA Today this year. The city’s 300 awe inspiring outdoor murals come alive in the evening during Blink. Originally from Cincinnati, Chaske is a graduate of the University of Cincinnati’s DAAP School of Design. He’s operated in the advertising, creative, and entertainment fields for over 15 years, working with a diversity of clients to help create rich visual content and engaging experiences for all audiences.

[00:02:23] Helen: Chaske’s love of creating frames of all types, both analog and digital in a variety of mediums, and at any scale, shines through in his animations, motion graphics, and immersive installations. Today, you’ll hear Chaske’s journey into projection mapping and immersive art, how he integrates AI into his creative process and his perspective on the evolving relationship between artists and artificial intelligence.

[00:02:53] Helen: We also discuss the technical challenges of working at such a large scale, his approach to crafting experiences for live audiences, and his vision for the future of immersive art.

[00:03:05] Helen: Discover how Chaske pushes the boundaries of art, and emerging technology for his largest canvas to date. The facade of an iconic 140 year old building. Enjoy.

[00:03:26] Helen: Welcome to Creativity Squared. Discover how creatives are collaborating with artificial intelligence in your inbox on YouTube and on your preferred podcast platform. Hi, I’m Helen Todd, your host, and I’m so excited to have you join the weekly conversations I’m having with amazing pioneers in this space.

[00:03:44] Helen: The intention of these conversations is to ignite our collective imagination at the intersection of AI and creativity to envision a world where artists thrive.

[00:04:01] Helen: Chaske, it is so good to have you on the show. Welcome to Creativity Squared.

[00:04:07] Chaske: Thank you, Helen. It’s wonderful to be here and, I appreciate the opportunity to chat with you a bit more.

[00:04:11] Helen: Yeah. So one of the reasons why I’m bringing Chaske on the show is, he’s an artist, which we’re going to learn all about, for Blink.

[00:04:21] Helen: And if you’re not familiar with Blink, I just want to tee that up a little bit. It’s the nation’s largest light art and projection mapping experience that takes place here in Cincinnati. And really the whole city is just turned into this like immersive light, art, experience, which is really amazing.

[00:04:41] Helen: There’s more than 80 installations over 30 city blocks and it’s really impressive. Even for like the people who’ve gone to Burning Man, you come to Cincinnati, you will be impressed with what’s going on. And one of the key buildings is Music Hall. And, Chaske actually got assigned that site for his light projection mapping project.

[00:05:05] Helen: So super, super excited about that so we’ll dive into that, but for those who are meeting you for the first time, can you share who you are and a little bit about your origin story, Chaske?

[00:05:16] Chaske: Sure. So yeah, my name is Chaske Averkos and I’m, you know, a local, artist from Cincinnati here.

[00:05:23] Chaske: You know, my background is, more kind of in the traditional design and animation realm. I was a graduate of the DAAP program at the University of Cincinnati in the digital design program. So kind of had a more traditional path into the kind of, graphic design and interactive design realm, but always had a strong passion for animation, motion graphics, video production, things that move if you will.

[00:05:48] Chaske: And I think that was always something that I continued to want to steer my own kind of professional endeavors, towards. So, the kind of quick and efficient version of that story is, graduating, from DAAP and then, you know, moving into that realm of more traditional advertising and marketing, working a lot more kind of in the realm of interface design and graphic design, if you will, but still kind of moonlighting and, personally, pursuing kind of my growth, if you will, with animation, with 3D, all of that kind of continuing to stack upon itself and eventually kind of turning into working in a video production agency, if you will, and kind of getting continued professional growth in that realm.

[00:06:33] Chaske: All of that, you know, continuing to kind of evolve and kind of grow together, leading to just the, essentially kind of an emphasis, if you will, on leading into animation, into motion graphics, and then natural segues. But the opportunity to experience Blink in 2017, I think was really eye opening in terms of the, as you alluded to, the incredible just activation of the entire city and just seeing, you know, block after block illuminating, with beautiful lights and murals and sound and energy, and really just kind of feeling a calling, if you will, to get woven into that and to really participate.

[00:07:13] Chaske: So yeah, that I think has just been incredibly amazing to have something like that, right here in our city. And, you know, the fact that I get to participate in that is just such an honor and I’m really excited for this year.

[00:07:26] Helen: What about animation are you passionate about or what draws you to animation out of all the different design areas that you could play with?

[00:07:35] Chaske: Sure. You know, that’s a, fun self reflective question, if you will.

[00:07:40] Chaske: And I think that there’s always been, the element of time that is kind of built into, you know, both video and animation and the idea that, you know, things can evolve and they can continue to change and you can continue to try to gain, you know, the attention of the audience or to kind of lead them in an unpredictable way, or to kind of, pique their curiosity.

[00:07:59] Chaske: And I think that just the synergy of, you know, motion with sound and with the timing element, and I think just provides such wonderful opportunities to really kind of strike a connection with your viewer, to kind of make them feel something, if you will, and to really kind of find ways to really connect with the audience.

[00:08:19] Chaske: And I think that I felt that, differently with animation and with video than really, you know, than I did with graphic design or making a poster or whatever it might be. And all of those are incredibly wonderful disciplines, but, I think the realm of motion in general just as always kind of resonated with me.

[00:08:36] Helen: And what was your first exposure to, I guess, light mapping or like [when] that was even a possibility to play with.

[00:08:44] Chaske: You know, reflecting back… In 2013, the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra, collaborated with, you know, ArtsWave and some of the local arts organizations here to activate Music Hall with projection mapped, visuals.

[00:08:58] Chaske: And what that actually means is essentially, you know, massive projectors projecting incredible amounts of lights onto, you know, huge, big, old, beautiful structure. But really what that provides is, you know, an incredibly large canvas, to really kind of bring to life through color and sound and motion.

[00:09:17] Chaske: And that specific experience, you know, was tailored to really sync up with the symphonic music that the CSO was providing. So that, that for me was kind of my first, direct exposure to seeing something at that scale and feeling, you know, the energy and the emotion and just all that it can kind of come with, with an experience that is created like that.

[00:09:41] Chaske: So seeing that in 2013, I think it was for the first time, really kind of planted the seed of inspiration. And then they did it again in 2015 and it was really exciting to actually be able to attend that one and see it in person as opposed to watching the broadcast. So, those kinds of formative moments of feeling the energy, you know, being amongst a crowd of people, all kind of, aligned with their excitement and enthusiasm and, understanding just really kind of what that experience could be, I think was incredibly inspiring and in a lot of ways kind of planted, you know, maybe kind of formative seeds of, direction for me, that would be followed in years to come, if you will.

[00:10:21] Helen: From an earlier conversation when we were talking, you said, like, when you, initially saw that first Luminosity, that you wanted to be, part of it or part of Blink. So what was your journey, I guess, getting involved, as an artist with Blink?

[00:10:35] Chaske: Sure. So after Luminosity, I think the idea was to kind of build it out and go bigger and to kind of further activate the city, which led to the very first Blink, which occurred in 2017.

[00:10:47] Chaske: So to your point, Helen, you know, the idea of further expanding that experience and not only being at, you know, one site with one set of visuals and one experience, but to, you know, literally be walking block after block throughout your own city, you know, experiencing a diversity of, light installations and mural, and colors and just feeling all of that positive energy, I think really, to your point, you know, felt kind of like a home base, if you will, and a place that I needed to be, actively participating in and really, you know, feeling a little bit of kind of, almost like a FOMO to be not doing this kind of thing because it felt so very appropriate for kind of all the things that I love.

[00:11:27] Chaske: So, attending Blink in 2017, I think really kind of, further lit the fuse or kind of, threw gasoline on the fire. And I think, after attending that I was really resigned to finding a way to participate in the next one. The quick story, you know, essentially would be, really kind of self reflecting, if you will, you know, thinking about what I had to offer, how I could embrace that medium, you know, what I thought I was capable of and, you know, really putting together a thoughtful and comprehensive kind of, submission, if you will, to try to capture that spirit and a feeling of, you know, versatility and a willingness to really take anything and just being excited at the opportunity to be part of it all.

[00:12:09] Chaske: So, my first, participation in Blink ended up being in 2019, and, I’m fortunate to be, about to be part of my third Blink, this year in 24.

[00:12:20] Helen: And tell us about your current projects. Cause it’s Music Hall. It’s one of the, key installations of Blink. So give us the full story. What’s the inspiration?

[00:12:32] Helen: And even like the canvas is so big, like the building is the canvas. How do you even like start?

[00:12:39] Chaske: Yeah. There’s so much to unpack from that question in a lot of ways. And I think that, you know, at the top level, the opportunity to work on Music Hall is such an honor. That is, you know, historically, a building that’s been a part of so many of our lives. It has been a staple of the Cincinnati skyline in that area, you know, has such great history.

[00:13:01] Chaske: And I think as a result, you know, it requires a huge amount of care and consideration and thought, because I think, you know, when I tell people what side I’m working on, they’re kind of like, “Oh, my gosh, that’s incredible.” And, and I feel that times 10, I think, with the responsibility and the feeling of really wanting to you know, just swing for the fences and do kind of the absolute best you can.

[00:13:22] Chaske: And I think that’s all, you know, just further underlined when you’re dealing with such a wonderful site that means so much to so many people. So, at the top level, it’s just, you know, really incredible and I’m super excited about it.

[00:13:36] Chaske: To your question about how does one, you know, kind of attack that challenge. I think one of the really exciting and fulfilling things about projection mapping as a medium to me is just that each site is really its own unique experience and that each creation, if you will, is really, you know, tailored to that site.

[00:13:57] Chaske: And so the way you know, that I end up typically working is to really, spend a lot of time just kind of understanding what it is that you’re even projecting onto, you know, and what is the scale of it, what are the opportunities that it provides to do things that, you know, you can really only do with projection mapping when you’re, you know, essentially dealing with a massive, drive in movie theater, but also one that is not flat, you know, it’s a building with, texture and different materials and different targets and windows and all of those, you know, provide such wonderful, fun opportunities to activate them or to, you know, play with the facade or to bring different, you know, movements to it.

[00:14:37] Chaske: And there’s such an immense toolkit or tool chest, if you will, and such a vast kind of opportunity when you’re dealing with the building of that magnitude, and especially one that has no mural, no existing color to navigate, and naturally, you know, physical materials meeting light is always, you know, kind of a challenge in terms of understanding what’s the color of the brick, you know, how much light will be absorbed, et cetera, but yeah, it’s, I think such a wonderful opportunity and you can just take it so many different directions that it really did require a lot of kind of thoughtful time spent with it to kind of figure out what are, you know, what are all the different things that one could actually do to make this as cool as possible.

[00:15:18] Helen: So for, our listeners and viewers, and, you know, we have a global audience who might not be able to make it to Blink, which I didn’t say the dates originally. It’s October 17th through 20th. So coming up really soon, can you describe the actual experience of your piece at Blink?

[00:15:37] Chaske: Sure. Blink in general is an evening and a nighttime event.

[00:15:41] Chaske: You know, it is activated essentially by the darkness that sets in. And as, you know, sunset comes upon the city, you know, you see all the colors and the lights and the murals and the projection sites activated and coming to life. So essentially, if you’re, you know, walking the streets through Blink, you can almost turn in any direction and probably see, you know, an installation, you know, an interactive event, a projection map mural.

[00:16:09] Chaske: You know, a street performer, you know, it’s an eclectic, kind of creative, you know, very bright and energetic experience. And, more specifically, I think with my experience, you know, just like any other projection mapped one, you know, you’re standing in front of a massive building. And suddenly it is coming to life.

[00:16:27] Chaske: And I think that the idea is essentially there is, you know, I would venture to say 500 feet away, you know, a massive infrastructure tower set up that is housing, you know, stacks of 4k and 8k projectors that are really blasting immense amounts of light onto this building and what they’re projecting is just an animated visual experience, if you will.

[00:16:48] Chaske: Each one, you know, created, by each artist uniquely, but that syncs up with a very engaging and original soundtrack to really bring to life the building and to hopefully kind of, provide an experience that, you know, blurs the line between, you know, surreal visuals and what you’re seeing the building changing, but also, you know, moments of pure animation or pure, you know, creativity where, you’re kind of, hopefully blurring the line between, you know, watching an experience that you’re seeing in front of you and, perhaps being part of it and feeling like you’re kind of in something as well.

[00:17:24] Chaske: So, for me it’s always, I think, been really important to keep the experience dynamic, you know, to keep their, the energy and the tempo up and to really kind of keep the movement flowing throughout the whole piece cause there’s a lot to see and a lot to take in there.

[00:17:41] Chaske: And I think that I’m always additionally, tongue in cheek, kind of know that I’m vying for people’s attention cause there’s so much amazing artwork and experiences going on at Blink as well, so.

[00:17:50] Helen: And one thing I’d love for you to share is like, how would you describe your aesthetic?

[00:17:54] Helen: And when you approach this project, you didn’t go with the obvious projection project. So kind of walk us through, I guess, the look and the feel and, even the music, which I’d love to dive into too.

[00:18:08] Chaske: Totally. You know, at the top level, I’ve come to realize that the marriage of the audio in the visuals, is almost kind of paramount to anything else in my pieces.

[00:18:18] Chaske: And I think that it really does all start with, an understanding of what is that kind of energetic tone and tempo and what is kind of the feeling that you’re trying to set for people. And then for me, I think that you can kind of identify that as, as perhaps like the tone and it helps you to really feel out kind of, the structure and the flow and where it can rise and fall and how you can, you know, kind of keep the audience both on track, but also a little bit on their toes if you will, too.

[00:18:34] Chaske: And I do think that, to your point, Helen, it’s always been really fun for me to take a little bit of the kind of what are people expecting and in how can I kind of flip that on its nose a little bit.

[00:18:56] Chaske: And, you know, I think that a good example could be thinking about the musical score for this and knowing that you’re in front of a concert hall, that is, you know, playing symphonic music regularly and feeling like there may be a little bit of an instinct to want to, you know, go in that direction.

[00:19:13] Chaske: But my kind of feeling, being that it may be a little bit more fun to have that not be the solution and not be what people are feeling or hearing, excuse me. So, I think that there is always an opportunity, especially when you’re creating at such a large scale, to really have some fun with kind of the expected versus the unexpected.

[00:19:32] Chaske: And, you know, speaking of the music, it’s, wonderful to have such a great, collaborative partner to work with. When I, when I first had the opportunity to participate in Blink in 2019, you know, one of the first things that came to mind was the soundtrack and how that was going to help to motivate my piece and to really kind of lay the groundwork for the timing and the flow and the tempo of it. From my previous, you know, life, if you will, in the traditional advertising world, I had some connections that were formed, doing original scores or doing music for commercials, things like that.

[00:20:08] Chaske: So naturally when I had the need for it, you know, turning to, the local agency that I was, you know, both friendly and professionally connected with, that made a lot of sense. So, very fortunately each time, you know, that I’ve had the opportunity to participate in Blink, you know, I’ve been able to turn to PLAY, which is, the local sound agency that I work with.

[00:20:27] Chaske: And those guys have been just incredibly supportive, but also, you know, artistically kind of resonant, if you will. And I think that it’s been easy for us to, kind of align together in terms of really understanding, this is the feeling that I have for it. You know, how does that translate in a, an auditory way or a musical way?

[00:20:44] Chaske: And so, kind of looping background to your original question, Helen, the idea that you have somebody that you can work with that has that kind of sixth sense for, your inclinations or understanding when you say, you know, “melancholy,” that you don’t necessarily mean sad, but you mean a little bit of kind of in the middle, if you will.

[00:21:02] Chaske: And so working with, you know, Adam and Drew and Ann, has just been really wonderful. And I think it’s really rewarding for us to, you know, work on something that is purely creative in a lot of ways. And I always think that it’s really fun to hopefully be able to provide them the opportunity to create some really creative original music that perhaps kind of speaks to them the way that my freedom to create Blink visuals kind of in my vision is provided to me as well.

[00:21:26] Chaske: So yeah, the end result is I think the mood and the tone of this was always meant to not necessarily be kind of ominous or dark or tenuous or anything like that, but I also, you know, wanted to make sure that it was not perpetually sunny. And I think that there’s always kind of a rhythm that you can provide an audience and times that you can allow them to catch their breath a little bit or kind of react to what they’ve seen or to cool down before you kind of ramp back up again.

[00:21:52] Chaske: And so the, I think the tone has always been intended to be, you know, a little bit on the edge of dramatic, but also, you know, allowing people, you know, moments, just to smile and have fun too. So it’s, it’s definitely intended to, to catch your ear and to kind of drive the piece and to motivate the whole thing.

[00:22:09] Chaske: And it really turned out really nicely. And I’m, you know, super excited about the track that was ended up created.

[00:22:15] Helen: And I’ll do a shout out to, PLAY as well cause they’re the podcast agency that produces the show and Drew is on the line with us now producing. So, big, big fans of them and just prepping for this interview.

[00:22:29] Helen: I’m so excited to see your piece. And how would you describe your aesthetic?

[00:22:34] Chaske: That is, always like a really interesting kind of self reflective question to try to kind of zone in on, you know, what is that kind of stylistic realm that you like to operate in? You know, I think in, thinking about that question.

[00:22:46] Chaske: It almost kind of makes me reflect on the past decade, if you will, almost. In the idea of the evolution from, not necessarily from designer to artist, but that differentiation between the skill sets required for both and the idea being that, you know, as a freelance designer or motion graphics artist, I think I take a lot of pride in being able to kind of accommodate any aesthetic, you know, to be able to operate in any stylistic realm and to create whatever the client wants you to create. But that also is a little bit different from, you know, where you might personally take your color palette if you could do whatever you wanted to.

[00:23:22] Chaske: And so the idea of asking, “what is your aesthetic or your zone of operation?” is an interesting one. And not something that, you know, really you get to just kind of have free rein to run with, oftentimes. So I do think, you know, that element is one of the more cherished parts about Blink, is I think really the creative freedom that we are provided.

[00:23:45] Chaske: But, my own, I guess my own aesthetic, if you will, I think is, kind of metaphorically tied to what I was sharing about Blink. You know, kind of walking that line between bright colors and black. Contrast between, you know, super brights and dark darks. And I think that representatively, you know, always gives me the opportunity to really transition from super high to super low, to keep, you know, whatever experience it is a little bit more dynamic and a little bit less predictable.

[00:24:17] Chaske: I think that I’ve always, you know, enjoyed that kind of glitchy kind of textural quality that, I think was kind of baked into me. You know, being born in the late eighties, you know, and understanding, you know, VHS and tape and things of that nature too. So, you know, aesthetically, I think I kind of have a diverse taste, if you will, but I do think that somewhere on the edge of comfortable and uncomfortable is kind of typically where I like to land.

[00:24:46] Helen: I love that you play with tension in that way. And one thing that you shared when we were discussing your project ahead of recording is that you really want to engage the audience and that actually growing up, your concert going experiences kind of influenced the experience that you want, people of your piece to have.

[00:25:06] Helen: So I was wondering if you could kind of, talk about, yeah, how you engage the audience through your piece too.

[00:25:14] Chaske: Absolutely. And, I do think, you know, as you were referring to my youth, in my younger years, you know, going to tons of concerts with my parents, my passion just for seeing live music as I got older.

[00:25:28] Chaske: And I think that kind of growing realization of feeling those moments and experiencing that energy being with a ton of other people in a moment of excitement and kind of shared, kind of concentrated energy towards something, I think, kind of baked into me the understanding of, just the power and the gravity that you have when you’re, you know, showing work or you’re kind of connecting with groups of people.

[00:25:51] Chaske: And I think that those, those moments and those kinds of feelings early on, you know, really kind of, resonated with me and it led me to find, I guess, great excitement and great enjoyment in kind of providing those moments for other people. And naturally, you don’t usually have huge opportunities for like that when you’re designing for a cell phone or, you know, you’re creating a broadcast animation.

[00:26:16] Chaske: And so, for me, that idea of how can you kind of bring immense energy to these pieces has always been incredibly important. And it does kind of dovetail with the idea of always kind of wanting to keep the next thing happening on the screen or the next kind of dangling the next carrot, if you will, and always feeling a really an immense need to kind of keep a secondary action on the screen happening or, keep kind of the next, thing on the horizon, if you will.

[00:26:45] Chaske: So, to your point, Helen, I think, you know, my kind of early exposure to feeling the energy of concerts and of live experiences and then when you, know, meld that together with my kind of innate interest as it is, I feel like they kind of came together in a way that really allowed me to embrace, you know, the meeting of medium of projection mapping as really kind of a natural extension of some of those experiences and that, you know, that rewarding feeling that comes with creating an experience for a lot of people that are all kind of focused on that same moment together.

[00:27:19] Helen: And one of the things that you had also mentioned is that like, this is your biggest canvas to date.

[00:27:26] Helen: So for like, the more, designers who are listening, like, what was the size? And I loved how you described, like the design elements of like your stack of cards as like one of the ways that you’re playing with. So I’d love for you to share, yeah, just like some of the, building size, but like, yeah, some of the, more technical aspects, I guess, of approaching this project.

[00:27:50] Chaske: Oh, man, you know, there’s, a couple of different kinds of rails, I think that are all moving in parallel when you’re trying to work on something of this scale. You know, as I mentioned before, a huge formative element of this is the soundtrack and really allowing that to motivate the timing and the flow and, how the kind of piece is actually structured together.

[00:28:12] Chaske: And, you know, the process for me is essentially really trying to figure out kind of what is that, sonic kind of playing field, if you will. You know, what is the tone, what are the kind of musical influences or inspirations that I’m finding, you know, what is my kind of ear hearing as I’m kind of thinking about this piece, and, you know, and how does that translate into the feeling that it’s going to provide the audience?

[00:28:37] Chaske: So, you know, working on the soundtrack and getting that kind of going is always really important to do kind of right towards the beginning. So, you know, creating a folder that you dump a whole bunch of inspirational tracks into is usually kind of the route that I go. And then, you know, we, Adam, Drew and Ann and I have like a really nice session, if you will, where we just kind of dig in, you know, talk about the different elements that are resonating with me, why I like certain parts of it.

[00:29:02] Chaske: And, in a lot of ways, you know, after we kind of have that moment, speaking to really the kind of creative connection, if you will, between us, but really being able to just kind of drop that off with them. And, it’d be like, “all right, let’s, you know, let’s see how you guys kind of interpret this and what your kind of version of that is.”

[00:29:19] Chaske: So that’s kind of the beginning part, you know, after I, you know, have that in the works, if you will, I think that then it does really start to become, you know, reading the building, understanding the site that I’ve been given and in really kind of engaging with starting to understand, you know, what are the possibilities here and how can I really use this building and the scale of it and the site that we have to its fullest potential to create, you know, an, a unique and immersive experience for the audience there.

[00:29:50] Chaske: So, to your point, Helen, you know, this being literally the biggest building and the biggest site that I’ve ever worked with and projected onto, you know, it has both its highest of highs and also it’s kind of, pitfalls, if you will. The only negative naturally just being the literal physical scale of that.

[00:30:09] Chaske: And the idea that you are in a need to project massive amounts of light, you know, hundreds of feet onto a red brick building and expect to, one, you know, have the graphics pop, but also have the light, you know, projected at a certain amount of brightness and lumens to actually, you know, make it visible to the massive amounts of people that are going to be watching it.

[00:30:30] Chaske: So, it definitely becomes kind of a handholding between, you know, art and science in a lot of ways. And, you know, I’m not, I’m fortunately not tasked with doing any of the kind of, math and science, if you will, to understand the technical, needs for some of that, which is really incredible, but it definitely does, you know, all kind of swirl together in terms of understanding what is possible on the site.

[00:30:53] Chaske: What could you do? And so really, that whole part of the process for me is really kind of, limitless, if you will. And just in terms of thinking, without constraint, you know, if you think that it would be cool for the building to crumble in this section, then, you know, why not let that be part of the consideration set.

[00:31:13] Chaske: And I think that the idea eventually becomes that you, I find enough of these really, compelling and attractive ideas that I can then start to plant them on the timeline. And, you know, to the metaphor that you had mentioned before, you know, I think of it as like kind of building a deck of playing cards where, you know, each idea that I have goes into that stack and they’re all kind of ready and waiting.

[00:31:36] Chaske: And as soon as I get the soundtrack, then really that, you know, you listen as deeply as possible and those moments start to reveal themselves in terms of where they should go in the timeline and, you know, how they can connect to the music to really create that kind of like harmonious and incredibly powerful combination, I think when, you know, audio and visuals, marry together seamlessly.

[00:31:57] Chaske: So yeah, short and quickly, I think that, you know, getting that soundtrack allows me to then kind of distribute the playing cards along the timeline and then start to figure out like, what is that structure and flow? You know, how does it rise and fall?

[00:32:11] Chaske: Are, are there moments of incredible action in activation to the site and then moments that contrast where it’s a little bit more energetically mellow? And I think just starting to kind of build out how it’s all going to feel. And so it is a really kind of involved process and it’s a lot of kind of editorial consideration, I think as well in terms of figuring out the structure.

[00:32:35] Chaske: But man, you know, once you kind of crack the code, so to speak, and start to feel those moments really connecting with the song [including] different sections in it. It’s just incredibly rewarding as well. So, really excited. I think that, you know, yet again, they teed me up with music and created, an original soundtrack that just felt very at home with kind of where my heart was already at. And, And then it was just kind of off to the races from there on.

[00:33:01] Helen: This is getting me even more excited to see it. And, just to answer that one question I asked from my notes, it’s sounded like the building size, like your biggest file size ever is 7,300 pixels and like, you were worried about the actual, like, can your computers even handle this like file size?

[00:33:24] Chaske: Yeah, I think, you know, every two years around this time of year, I think my computers shutter in fear, you know, of the required rendering times and just the smoke that’ll be coming out of them. But, to your point more specifically, this building is probably two to three times bigger than anything that I had previously been, you know, working and engaging with previously.

[00:33:44] Chaske: And, certainly wasn’t out of my capacity, but there comes with it a huge amount of weight, if you will, that comes with rendering at massive sizes. And there’s a, you know, truly kind of a technical consideration in terms of the time that it will, take to create the graphics practically versus, you know, what you’re creatively aspiring to make.

[00:34:07] Chaske: So yeah, it was, you know, close to eight [thousand] and, you know, massive files, you know, 24 hours of uploading to the server, you know, for my deliverable. And all of that, I think just, you know, adds another kind of, layer of consideration, if you will, and just being like, I might want to create the scene, but if it’s going to take, you know, 35 hours to render, is that really practical, and or, are there other ways that I can accomplish this in a little bit more efficient time?

[00:34:36] Chaske: But yeah, it was incredibly massive and it was really rewarding to see, you know, my ability, I guess, to create at those resolutions and to kind of accomplish that. But yeah, it all kind of scaled up the gravity of all of that, and it was proportionally, as massive as the actual building is basically.

[00:34:57] Helen: I love it. And as you know, [on] the show, we explore the intersection of AI and creativity. So I want to talk a little bit about AI and I think first… How, did you use AI as part of this piece? And then we’ll go into your approach and stuff. Cause, since we’re talking about your piece, let’s double click into that a little bit more.

[00:35:21] Chaske: Natural segues, you know, it definitely… AI and that whole kind of blooming around that technology and what was possible with it creatively, you know, I think was really starting to come to pass right around the time that I was finishing up my 2022 Blink piece. And I think that it was, uniquely timed, I guess, to really provide me with these tantalizing kind of ideas of a new frontier.

[00:35:51] Chaske: But also enough runway to potentially consider, how could I get my arms around this; integrate it into my own workflows and potentially, you know, use it to my advantage to create even more visually engaging artwork. So, you know, fast forwarding to where I’m at right now, I was, I’m trying to think of the right way to kind of convey this, but I was resigned to the idea of making this Blink piece very much a blending of styles and to really work to integrate new technology, new programs and new skills into this piece this year.

[00:36:28] Chaske: There’s a couple of different tracks to that endeavor, if you will, but definitely one of them was understanding a kind of diffusion based animation, how I could integrate that, how I could, you know, learn how to use that and to basically make it my own.

[00:36:43] Chaske: And I think that it does, you know, naturally start to hit on other kind of topics of AI consideration, if you will, but, essentially kind of, revealing the way that I felt about it, but also understanding that I did not want to run from it. I did not want to, you know, push back against it. And I felt like you either, you know, embrace it or know that others will.

[00:37:04] Chaske: And I think that it also just provided such incredibly tantalizing visuals, like literally seeing what it was creating, I think was enough to inspire me to want to kind of figure out how to use this tool. So, to your question, you know, my projection map piece for Blink is a five minute animation, you know, so it is a long, you know, kind of moving piece.

[00:37:28] Chaske: And I think that the stylistic, qualities that diffusion based animation are capable of right now, really kind of holds hands, if you will, with some of the kind of stylistic, movements in the ways that I, you know, just like to animate as it is, so. I think all in all, it is used in a very thoughtful and kind of strategic way.

[00:37:51] Chaske: It was really important to me that the audience did not walk away from this feeling like it was an AI piece, if you will, and I think that if you’re kind of blending it all together to where people are not able to disseminate, with ease, you know, “Oh that was in AI scene, and that was a 3D one,” quote, unquote, you know, to me, that would be kind of like mission accomplished.

[00:38:11] Chaske: And I do think that, you know, finding harmony and blending all of this together is something that you should be doing anyway, as a good kind of animator and a good, you know, editor to make things feel harmonious. And so, yeah, it is, you know, used in an extensive way, but I do think in a very thoughtful way as well.

[00:38:29] Chaske: And so, yeah, I’m really excited about it. And I think that there’s, you know, just a lot of potential to continue to kind of get your arms around, I think as both the technology and the mindsets evolve, if you will, too.
[00:38:41] Helen: Yeah, I didn’t, put two and two together until you just said it, that the Chat GPT and gen AI moment really did happen right after the last Blink, which was in October of 2022.

[00:38:53] Helen: Cause that moment happened like in November. So it’ll be interesting -I was out of town for the last Blink – but it will be interesting to hear the differences now that the gen AI, like how, it’s changed Blink and how the different artists have played with it. So, I’ll be keeping my ears out for that, I guess. Or have you had a sense of it working with Blink?

[00:39:19] Chaske: A little bit. I do think that they’re… my gut instinct is that, you know, Mid Journey or some of these generative AI for images, I think, are perhaps being more used, if you will, think of like a submission file, you know, or creating a storyboard frames or things like that, you know, I think that there is definitely a very, thoughtful kind of, keeping your eye on it, if you will. Especially when it comes to the curatorial team, you know, understanding you can churn out some really beautiful eye candy nowadays out of Mid Journey, but, you know, the follow through in executing may often be a little bit out of reach.

[00:39:59] Chaske: And so I do think using – I can only imagine that it’s been way more democratized or, you know, the idea of those images kind of finding their way into more and more people’s, submission decks or you know, even their work, I think, is only going to probably become more and more challenging for teams as they try to parse out, you know, real skill set versus, portrayed, if you will.

[00:40:23] Chaske: But yeah, I know for myself, at least, I think that wanting to use it kind of my way, I guess, if you will, was really kind of the most important part and to really be able to say that what I was creating, you know, with these tools, felt like it was my own and, not something that I was just kind of like partnering on, with a computer to create graphics.

[00:40:45] Chaske: But yeah, I think, you know, to your point, Helen, it will be really interesting for me, even to kind of just be walking around and to be trying to kind of drill in on, you know, what I’m seeing in, how it was created. I do that anyway, but I think it’s even more fun now with all the diversity of tools that people are creating with.

[00:41:03] Helen: And you kind of started hinting at it, but I’d love for you to expand on, like, since you do use AI tools, kind of what’s your approach and how do you think about working with AI in your creative process.

[00:41:21] Chaske: Sure. In an effort to kind of reflect on that, I thought that it was important to almost kind of understand how I got here, you know, in looking back a couple of years, you know, which I think did provide a little bit of insight to really understand, like you were saying, the kind of unique synchronicity, if you will, of some of this technology appearing at different points in time in my own creative journey, if you will, you know? And to just kind of look back and to be like, “oh, so, you know, I was using, you know, Mid Journey for the first time in summer of ‘22, while I was preparing to show a piece in fall of ‘22,” that was based entirely off of, you know, 3D and traditional kind of, tools, if you will, and that’s funny to almost kind of reflect and to be like, I don’t want to draw like a, this is an old paintbrush and this is like a new Porsche kind of situation.

[00:42:07] Chaske: But I do think that there is almost like a little bit of, before AI and after AI, just in terms of the kind of the creative world, even. So yeah, I think, you know, at that point creating images out of Mid Journey was just like, you know, incredibly, surprising and, you know, I think all those things that probably everybody feels when they prompt it for the first time.

[00:42:31] Chaske: It also made me a little uncomfortable. You know, I think I felt also at that same time that, that kind of feeling of like, “is this really mine?” You know, do I really feel comfortable taking credit for this? And, and in a lot of ways I didn’t, you know? And so I think that for me as an animator and a 3d artist and an immersive designer, Mid Journey was just kind of the tip of the spear in terms of understanding that if you can create incredibly beautiful, still frames that eventually, you know, you’ll be able to create six of those frames and you can put them into one second and you’ll have a frame of animation and it’ll only go from there.

[00:43:05] Chaske: And so, as I was kind of looking back on it, you know, I had Blink in, 22, which was super cool. And I think that right around that time, in that, I think fall around that time was when I saw some of the first, you know, deform based animation and that, you know, essentially being just like a full run of this incredibly trippy, you know, perpetually infinite zooming forward kind of video where, you know, everything starts to dissolve into smaller pixels or smaller scenes.

[00:43:33] Chaske: And in really like watching some of those early kind of animations, it just, it blew my mind in a lot of ways. You know, the computer, of course, or kind of the way that it’s interpreting the flow of the information, you know, results in transitions that are just, you know, surreal or would be painstakingly done frame by frame in a more traditional capacity.

[00:43:54] Chaske: And so, you know, all of that to me just revealed that there was a ton of opportunity and a ton of power with these tools, if you could, you know, leverage them in… you know, kind of bottle the lightning and force it in the direction that you want to take it. And I think at that moment, if you will, it really, you know, kind of planted the seed to be like, I need to figure out how to use this.

[00:44:14] Chaske: I need to figure out how to use it in a way that feels appropriate and empowering for me. And yeah, I think, you know, from that point on, it was just kind of like running through different hurdles in terms of, you know, technical proficiency and understanding what I actually had to do.

[00:44:31] Chaske: From like the user interface standpoint and just literally getting the tools set up, you know, but also navigating kind of new technological questions in terms of, graphical power and GPU and, you know, Mac versus Windows and things of that nature.

[00:44:48] Chaske:You know, all of which kind of culminated in me basically getting a new machine and really just kind of taking the plunge towards, just total, not ownership, I would say, but basically taking, you know, AI kind of into my world, if you will, and integrating it into, you know, the array of programs and tools that I use to create the things that I, I guess, see in my mind or whatever.

[00:45:11] Helen: For some of our listeners who are interested in this, let’s talk about the tech stack that you play with a little bit. And you’re very pro open source, you’re very pro control and having it all on your computers. So what are some of the tools that you play with too?

[00:45:26] Chaske: Sure. I think you hit on a couple, kind of personal kind of guidelines, if you will, or kind of ways that I think helped to kind of understand how I wanted to interact with these tools. And at the top level, I think feeling a little bit uncomfortable with needing to lean on any sort of cloud based service or platform or subscription based service at the top level, you know, which to me then meant I need to take this local.

[00:45:55] Chaske: I need to have everything on my computer, I need to be able to run this, you know, like a program, like I’d run After Effects, you know, and to not have to be leaning on Google Collab or, you know, a whole other company or whatever it might be. So all of that kind of was one element to it.

[00:46:12] Chaske: I think the other part was just like, acknowledging if I wanted to do that, what that meant from a computing standpoint and really kind of the admittance that I needed to kind of lean into the PC world, I think to really kind of do it the right way, if you will. And then I guess the last part of that, just being like, what are the models or the programs or, you know, for lack of a better term, kind of the infrastructure that I would then be using this machine with, you know, what is out there?

[00:46:43] Chaske: What’s possible right now? What are the, you know, the open source models that you can actually have on your computer? Are they good enough? You know, in essentially kind of, not the arms race, but you know, everything’s moving and growing so quickly that what I was doing in January has certainly been far eclipsed by now.

[00:47:05] Chaske: And so I do think that just, you know, being future proofed or thinking about the future, especially in this kind of field is really important. And, the idea of basically just being able to be kind of self sustained and to kind of take everything into my own hands, I think was always the most important part.

[00:47:25] Chaske: And so, yeah, I ended up taking the plunge and getting a PC, the, around the beginning of this year in ‘24, I couldn’t fully kind of unplug from my, Mac ecosystem, so as you can see, I have an iMac on the desk too, but I kind of run between both of them and I do think, it’s kind of fun to have a workstation that is more creatively dedicated. But yeah, you know, I could certainly get deep in the weeds in terms of the actual kind of, models and programs and all the rest of that.

[00:47:55] Chaske: But basically, I’m trying to kind of use and embrace this technology in a way that feels good to me, if you will. And it feels like I’m kind of operating with a measure of independence and ownership and, you know, really, a granular control of all of it. And I think that to me felt like it really needed to be the driving, kind of force at the top level.

[00:48:22] Chaske: You know, if the client wants you to change the color of somebody’s eyes, I think that you need to have the ability to do that, if you want to actually think about this stuff as like a truly professional tool, that actual, you know, freelance animators or creatives would use.

[00:48:37] Chaske: And so, yeah, that was always kind of the goal. And I think that it’s been really rewarding to be able to create with it. And, you know, I’m super excited to be able to showcase some of those visuals in the Blink piece this year.

[00:48:49] Helen: And I want to, I guess, dive into a little bit more what you mean by control.

[00:48:53] Helen: I guess two thoughts came to my mind. One, like the, machines themselves actually, you know, hallucinate and you know, when they generate, it’s hard to control the output depending on the temperature, which, the interview with Lori Mazur, discusses this a lot of how much do you want them, once you prompt to, you know, have total creative freedom or to bring your vision to life and it’s hard to have consistency, but you know, they’re, kind of fixing that.

[00:49:22] Helen: And then the other side of that is also, how you view AI you’ve said like you like control, so you don’t really see it as like a partner, like your word is your work. AI is a tool. Do you see it like getting your ideas out of your head faster or brainstorming tool?

[00:49:41] Helen: Or is it just another After Effects in your toolkit? So I’m kind of curious, both from like the control of how AI operates and then how you see the tool, in your toolkit too.

[00:49:53] Chaske: That’s such a fun question because I think from my experience, it can almost exist in both at the exact same time. And it’s really what is the intended use for it in that moment, if you will.

[00:50:06] Chaske: And I say that because I’ve used some of these workflows, for like a very rapid fire kind of iterative way. Sometimes that’s more kind of a happy accident kind of situation, but I definitely have been very, like very targeted and very intentional with how I’ve used them as well.

[00:50:27] Chaske: And I think that they’re, perhaps that, kind of, spectrum, if you will, is what makes it all so, you know, incredibly powerful. But, you know, speaking to the idea of control, I felt like when it comes to using AI to create imagery, I feel like the element of control is really kind of what is the point of tension for a lot of people. The idea that, you know, how much credit can you really take forward if you type in, you know, one word and it spits out, you know, an incredibly elaborate image or whatever. The inverse be, if you type, you know, a script length prompt and you get a very targeted image, that’s very intentional, you know, how do those intersect and, kind of, where do you, kind of feel that you fit in on what’s appropriate with all of that?

[00:51:12] Chaske: So, I personally feel like the intentionality of the creation and what you get from it is really where the magic is and in terms of the vision at the beginning, translating to what comes out of it being kind of representative of the artistic vision that’s woven into that, i.e. And just ultimately feeling like I always needed to have more ability to steer the outcomes from these, you know, these runs of these dreams that I’m creating, if you will.

[00:51:41] Chaske: And, it basically acknowledging that I do think prompting is a skill. And I do think that not everybody can, you know, create the same images, even if they type in what they think are the same prompts, but, taking that layers and magnitudes further of actually wanting to be able to control the images via what I’m feeding into it.

[00:52:04] Chaske: And that I think is where, to me, the most powerful and the most kind of liberation came to understand that, you know, I innately have the ability to create 3D animations in all of the traditional programs that I’ve used, but to then, use those as, armatures or kind of skeletons that I can then pump in to this, you know, workflow and get, you know, further enhanced or further diverse kind of, animations or outcomes from is just incredibly powerful.

[00:52:33] Chaske: And so to me, yeah, to your point, you know, controlling that and being able to say, “I’m going to give you this, I want this to come out of it. Let’s see what happens,” Quote unquote, I think was really kind of the magic. And, you know, as the technology continues to evolve, there’s just, you know, more and more ways that I think you can affect the outcome and, and I never intend to work with this like it’s a slot machine, where you’re just kind of hoping that you get something out of it.

[00:53:01] Chaske: And I think I take a lot of pride in, you know, not having a lot of quote unquote “re-rolls” where you’re just kind of doing it again and doing it again and doing it again, and hoping that you get something that’s usable, but really, you know, finding productive kind of time with all this and getting stuff that’s really, I think, usable and just incredibly visually engaging as well.

[00:53:23] Helen: I love all of your analogies, they’re so great. One question, cause I thought it was interesting, earlier in the conversation when you first had your gen AI moment with Mid Journey and kind of saw what was possible, but then you immediately, put in like moving images are next, like that’s next and in working with it on this large scale project, I’d love to hear like, what limitations did you come up with?

[00:53:54] Helen: And were there things that, you know, for the next Blink or the next project that you want the tools or where do you see the tools going? And what do you still, what’s still on your wishlist, for this, like a sandbox?

[00:54:06] Chaske: Totally. That’s a really good question, Helen. And I think, You know, when I was looking back at the journey, you know, I think it was essentially like one year from when I created my first Mid Journey image to when I think it was runway started to do their kind of initial, you know, image to video kind of stuff. And the cloud in that, kind of moment, I think also was, revelatory in terms of understanding, you know, one, this is kind of cool that I can upload a video and they can turn it into an animation.

[00:54:36] Chaske: But two, it was, you know, like six frames a second and it was horribly small, you know, and I really wasn’t happy with kind of what I got out of it. I felt like it was just kind of, you know, throwing stuff at the wall and being like, “Oh, this is kind of cool.” So all of that is to say that I think my kind of, underwhelmed feeling coming away from that service and from that experience, led me to be a little bit more resolved to kind of, my own solutions, if you will, and not being kind of beholden to the rollout schedule of some other company.

[00:55:09] Chaske: All of that is to kind of, give context to how quickly things have moved and to be like, you know, some of the gen three things that you can do with, Runway are incredible, or, you know, I’m sure we’ve all seen some of the Sora videos that were kind of floating around there for a while.

[00:55:25] Chaske: And some of the kind of, I don’t know, proof of concept, music videos that, have been done. it’s all really incredible. And I do think that if probably for most kind of animators or directors or kind of creative individuals that continued, just granular control over the elements of it, I think is just the perpetual kind of wishlist if you will.

[00:55:48] Chaske: For me, that’s a little bit different because I feel like I have an understanding of what’s going to come out of this because I am putting into it a certain, you know, roadmap or kind of a guiding element. But, you know, the reality is, Helen, I think just, you know, faster models, just bigger training sets, you know, just more kind of, consistency in the images.

[00:56:13] Chaske: And, it’s all just moving so quickly. I think that, I can’t. Imagine, you know, even in another year, kind of the things that will be possible because there is from my standpoint, like such a, an effort by a lot of these companies too, to introduce this technology to the populace, you know, and to get users into, you know, it is kind of a business at the same time for a lot of them too.

[00:56:38] Chaske: So, I think I’m just kind intrigued to see kind of how it’ll continue to grow. And I think if there can be a little bit more, what’s the right word, kind of natural, quality to some of the images that come out of it. Cause at least to my eye, I think there can still be kind of an uncanny valley or a very, you know, a kind of a telltale shine to different elements of it that I think, you know, just kind of reveal themselves as being, you know, generated from cling or from whatever the kind of program is.

[00:57:10] Chaske: So, it’s all really cool. And I think it’s hard to not just kind of be like, welp. You might not even know what’s going to be here, you know, next or whatever it might be.

[00:57:19] Helen: And, you know, since you have embraced like new tools, I’ve seen, a lot recently from CES and just all the AI things I follow on Instagram and whatnot, a lot of like really interesting holographic pieces that are emerging.

[00:57:36] Helen: And I was like, curious if that’s something that, you’re interested in playing with.

[00:57:43] Chaske: The answer is yes. I think if it, involves, you know, light and form, I’m always going to be kind of intrigued by it. That, you know, the idea, I guess, of kind of volumetric light has always been intriguing in that idea of, whatever we’ve all seen star Wars, you know, in having those kinds of elements, being there kind of in a surreal way is pretty cool.

[00:58:06] Chaske: But, as a projection artist, I guess in speaking of different mediums, but I’ve often seen, you know, projecting onto, smoke or vapor or things like that, or projecting underwater, or different mediums. So I, I’m kind of all for whatever it might be. And I think that would be a fun challenge.

[00:58:22] Helen: Nice. Well, we’ll definitely have to bring you back on the show. And I know we could probably talk and go on and on, but we try to keep it for an hour for our listeners. But before we sign off, what’s one thing if you want our listeners and viewers to remember one thing from our conversation or just in general about AI or your art or Blink?

[00:58:43] Helen: What’s that one thing that you’d like them to walk away with?

[00:58:45] Chaske: You know, reflecting on that, question, I think, you know, for me, I think that there was an acknowledgement essentially of kind of the emotion and the tension I think that AI can bring into the creative world or, you know, almost kind of societal at large.

[00:59:00] Chaske: And I think that I was reflecting on that idea in really kind of wanting to draw distinction to the idea that there are still you know, groups of people or, you know, large swaths of creative individuals that aspire to use this technology, for the better of kind of advancing creative abilities and for enhancing skill sets.

[00:59:20] Chaske: And, essentially that I think not everybody that wants to kind of embrace or to learn how to use it to our benefit, are kind of hollowing out the artistic or creative worlds at large. And so for me, it just was almost a mission statement to kind of feel like you’re using or embracing or weaving these tools into your workflows, but doing it in a way that kind of feels like it has a little bit more integrity or perhaps kind of feels good to the way that you want to operate.

[00:59:49] Chaske: So I think part of it was just almost kind of, an acknowledgment that, you know, there are some of us out here that want to kind of use this in a way that can play harmoniously with what has previously been done or the, you know, kind of previously established norms or, the different kind of, small kind of, elements, I guess, under build broader creative umbrella.

[01:00:11] Chaske: So, all of that is kind of like a way of saying essentially that, you know, I’m, an artist that uses AI, I’m not an AI artist. And that, you know, that idea is an important one and certainly one that was helped to kind of be cultivated by our conversation here, Helen. And I think that, it is important to almost kind of acknowledge that there is a difference between the two and it’s okay to be one or the other.

[01:00:38] Chaske: But I think it’s also, you know, important just to acknowledge that there are those that want to use this as a tool to enhance. Not just something that we lean on.

[01:00:47] Helen: So well said. Well, it’s been wonderful having you on the show. And I know for our audio only listeners that you’re probably curious what his work looks like.

[01:00:57] Helen: So, go to CreativitySquared.com and we’ll embed some of his work in the dedicated blog post that will go with this. And if you’re in the Cincinnati area or need [an] excuse to come, definitely check out Blink. I’m super excited, even more excited after today’s conversation. So, Chaske, thank you so much for all of your time and sharing, it and all of your amazing art and thoughts on today’s episode.

[01:01:23] Chaske: Well, thank you, Helen. I really appreciate it. You know, a wonderful opportunity to be on here with you. And I appreciate you inviting me. it’ll be awesome to share, you know, my work with the Cincinnati community, if you will. And I’m really excited for Blink and I’m really excited to, to see a lot of other people there too.

[01:01:40] Chaske: So, thank you. I appreciate it.

[01:01:45] Helen: Thank you for spending some time with us today. We’re just getting started and would love your support. Subscribe to Creativity Squared on your preferred podcast platform and leave a review. It really helps. And I’d love to hear your feedback. What topics are you thinking about and want to dive into more?

[01:02:00] Helen: I invite you to visit CreativitySquared.com to let me know. And while you’re there, be sure to sign up for our free weekly newsletter, so you can easily stay on top of all the latest news at the intersection of AI and creativity. Because it’s so important to support artists, 10 percent of all revenue Creativity Squared generates will go to ArtsWave, a nationally recognized nonprofit that supports over a hundred arts organizations. Become a premium newsletter subscriber, or leave a tip on the website to support this project and ArtsWave.

[01:02:32] Helen: And premium newsletter subscribers will receive NFTs of episode cover art and more extras to say thank you for helping bring my dream to life. And a big, big thank you to everyone who’s offered their time, energy, and encouragement and support so far. I really appreciate it from the bottom of my heart.

[01:02:50] Helen: This show is produced and made possible by the team at Play Audio Agency. Until next week, keep creating.