In a rapidly evolving digital landscape where artificial intelligence increasingly shapes how we create and consume content, understanding the future of the creator economy has never been more crucial.
In this episode, our guest is Shira Lazar, CEO and founder of What’s Trending, and we explore the past, present, and future of content creation in an A.I.-powered world.
Shira revolutionized web-first news in 2011 with What’s Trending, predating the creator economy as we know it today. She recognized the power of digital culture before most, becoming a go-to voice for emerging online communities and viral moments when traditional media wasn’t paying attention. Through advocacy work, her weekly newsletter The Alpha, and speaking engagements on stages like SXSW, VeeCon, and CES, Shira continues to shape how we think about technology’s impact on creators and society.
As an Emmy-nominated digital culture trailblazer, one of Fast Company’s Most Influential Women in Technology, and on Variety’s Women of Impact list, Shira has spent over two decades at the intersection of technology, media, and human connection. Her journey from broadcaster to digital innovator led her to an even more crucial mission — supporting creator wellbeing through co-founding Peace Inside Live, a wellness agency and collective. This work led to launching the Creators 4 Mental Health initiative which is focused on bringing mental health tools to the creator economy through events and community programming.
One question we dive into: Are A.I. creators making money? And do they have the tools to set themselves up for success in their careers? Today, you’ll hear Shira’s unique perspective on the evolution of the creator economy, from the early days of YouTube stars to the current A.I. revolution. She shares invaluable insights on creator sustainability, mental health, and building a more mindful digital future.
Listen in and continue reading to get a pulse on the creator economy and what’s needed so we all thrive, centering wellbeing to unlock our best content we can imagine.
The creator economy’s journey from its early days of message boards and “mommy bloggers” to today’s complex ecosystem of platforms and monetization strategies tells a story of constant evolution.
Shira, who witnessed this transformation firsthand, traces the progression from early community platforms through the rise of social media giants.
“For me, the first platform, really, I remember starting out as, like, to connect with people that I was meeting and knew and getting followers was Twitter,” Shira recalls. She describes how each platform emerged with its own unique culture and opportunities, from MySpace’s role in building digital celebrities to YouTube’s transformation of video content creation. A particularly significant moment came with the first VidCon, where Shira witnessed the power of creator-fan connections in real life.
Shira Lazar
This experience led her to create the Partners Project, which she describes as “the Inside the Actors Studio for YouTube stars,” marking an early recognition of digital creators as legitimate media figures.
Today’s creator economy presents both unprecedented opportunities and significant challenges, as Shira explains.
Shira Lazar
These statistics highlight the stark reality of the creator economy — while some creators achieve substantial success, many struggle to generate significant income from their content. This disparity underscores the need for more sustainable revenue models and support systems within the ecosystem.
When it comes to platform monetization, YouTube remains the gold standard for consistent creator revenue, though even this model has its limitations. “The only platform that consistently does that, that’s not including a bonus structure… really, YouTube is still the only place,” Shira notes, pointing out that other platforms’ bonus programs, while helpful, don’t provide the same stability.
The landscape has evolved to include multiple revenue streams, from brand partnerships to subscription models and digital products. Shira emphasizes that creators often provide exceptional value to brands, offering both content creation and distribution through their platforms — services that would traditionally cost significantly more through traditional advertising channels.
“In order to get $5,000 off of video on any of these platforms, how many views do you need to get? But you get $5,000 [to make a sponsored video] and that pays for your time to create the video, plus, you know, basically, them renting your platform to advertise on,” she explains, highlighting both the opportunities and challenges of brand partnerships.
Perhaps one of the most pressing yet overlooked aspects of the creator economy is the toll it takes on mental health. Through her work with Peace Inside Live and Creators 4 Mental Health, Shira advocates for better support systems and resources for creators.
“We did a proof of concept event in LA in June called Creators 4 Mental Health, had some sponsorships, and then we did one in October, we did one with Shopify,” Shira shares, describing her efforts to bring mental wellness tools to the creator economy. Her vision extends beyond individual support to systemic change, particularly considering how the creator economy is set to grow.
Shira Lazar
The conversation takes an especially poignant turn when discussing the intersection of A.I., loneliness, and mental health. Both Helen and Shira express concern about the rapid deployment of A.I. companions without proper safeguards.
“These products are just being released so recklessly,” Helen notes, with Shira adding that developers must think “holistically about this, not just about the tech experience, the product experience, but the human experience.”
While acknowledging the risks, Shira sees tremendous potential in A.I. to enhance creator capabilities and accessibility. She envisions A.I. as a creative assistant that could help streamline workflow and enhance productivity while maintaining authenticity.
“What if I had…an A.I. that was like, ‘Okay, here’s what I want you to shoot today. Here’s what I want you to do.’ Of course, I have input in that, and I can tweak it, but it becomes…a baseline for me to work from.”
This vision of A.I. as a supportive tool rather than a replacement for human creativity aligns with Shira’s emphasis on the importance of authentic connection in digital spaces:
Shira Lazar
Looking ahead, Shira emphasizes the need for a more holistic approach to creator support, including better infrastructure for health insurance, mental health resources, and professional development. She sees the creator economy as a new class of small business, requiring diverse revenue streams and support systems to thrive.
Shira Lazar
A crucial aspect of the future creator economy, Shira argues, is ensuring technology serves all creators, including those with disabilities or limited access to traditional resources.
Shira Lazar
This perspective highlights the importance of developing A.I. and other creative tools with accessibility and inclusion in mind from the start, rather than as an afterthought.
As the conversation draws to a close, Shira shares her vision for a future where creators can focus on quality over quantity, supported by technology that enhances rather than replaces human creativity. Her parting wisdom encapsulates the heart of thriving in the creator economy.
Shira Lazar
This powerful reminder serves as both a call to action and a note of hope. As we navigate the evolving landscape of digital creation, maintaining our personal well-being and authentic voice becomes more crucial than ever.
The future of the creator economy depends not just on technological advancements, but on our ability to use these tools in service of genuine human connection and expression.
Through this thoughtful conversation, Helen and Shira illuminate the complex interplay between technology, creativity, and human wellbeing that will shape the future of digital content creation.
As we move forward into an increasingly A.I.-powered world, their insights offer valuable guidance for creators seeking to navigate this evolving landscape while maintaining their authenticity and protecting their mental health.
Thank you, Shira, for joining us on this special episode of Creativity Squared.
This show is produced and made possible by the team at PLAY Audio Agency: https://playaudioagency.com.
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TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Shira: We are losing our sense that we know who we are and what we know is important, right? Like we have sovereignty over that and our biggest gift as humans is our sense of self and only each of us know what we can enjoy, what brings us purpose, all that. These things, these tools can help, but we have actually that inner wisdom and we are being taugt that we need external things to help us get there. And this is the main issue.
[00:00:29] Helen: From early digital media pioneer to mental health advocate for creators, meet Shira Lazar. Shira revolutionized web first news in 2011 with What’s Trending, predating the creator economy as we know it today. She recognized the power of digital culture before most, becoming a go to voice for emerging online communities in viral moments when traditional media wasn’t paying attention.
[00:00:57] Helen: Through advocacy work, her weekly newsletter, The Alpha, and speaking engagements on stages like South by Southwest, VCon, and CES, Shira continues to shape how we think about technology’s impact on creators, and society. As an Emmy nominated digital culture trailblazer, one of fast companies most influential women in technology and on Variety’s women of impact list, Shira has spent over two decades at the intersection of technology, media, and human connection.
[00:01:33] Helen: Her journey from broadcaster to digital innovator led her to an even more crucial mission, supporting creator wellbeing through co founding Peace Inside Live, which is a wellness agency and collective. This work led to launching the Creators for Mental Health Initiative, which is focused on bringing mental health tools to the creator economy through events and community programming.
[00:01:58] Helen: I first saw Shira on stage at MidwestCon last year and then had the opportunity to meet her in Austin this past March. I’m not only a big fan of her work, but also appreciate all she does as an advocate for centering well being and also being able to have nuanced and needed conversations about the digital landscape.
[00:02:19] Helen: One question we dive into are AI creators making money and do they have the tools to set themselves up for success in their careers? Today, you’ll hear Shira’s unique perspective on the evolution of the creator economy. From the early days of YouTube stars to the current AI revolution, she shares invaluable insights on creator sustainability, mental health, and building a more mindful digital future.
[00:02:47] Helen: As a trigger warning, this episode contains discussions of suicide and mental health that some listeners may find distressing. If you’re having thoughts of suicide, call or text 988, to reach the 988 suicide and crisis lifeline, or visit SpeakingOfSuicide.com for more support and resources.
[00:03:10] Helen: In today’s episode, join us to get a pulse on the creator economy and what’s needed, so we all thrive centering wellbeing to unlock our best content we can imagine. Enjoy.
[00:03:31] Helen: Welcome to Creativity Squared. Discover how creatives are collaborating with artificial intelligence in your inbox, on YouTube, and on your preferred podcast platform. Hi, I’m Helen Todd, your host, and I’m so excited to have you join the weekly conversations I’m having with amazing pioneers in this space.
[00:03:50] Helen: The intention of these conversations is to ignite our collective imagination at the intersection of AI and creativity to envision a world where artists thrive.
[00:04:06] Helen: Well, Shira, welcome to Creativity Squared.
[00:04:09] Shira: Thank you for having me. I’m excited for this.
[00:04:12] Helen: Yeah, well, it’s been a long time coming. We met way back in March. So I feel like, it was yesterday and forever ago all at the same time because so much has happened. But for those who are meeting you for the first time, can you share who you are, what you do, and a bit of your origin story?
[00:04:31] Shira: Yeah, I’m Shira. I’m the CEO and founder of What’s Trending. We are a digital media brand and publisher covering the social media water cooler; “what’s trending.” Pretty self explanatory. So you can find us everywhere, WhatsTrending.com and at What’s Trending on social media. And I also have a wellness organization called Peace Inside Life, where we build customized wellness programs for companies, teams and communities and more recently launched an initiative that is relevant for I think our conversation today called Creators For Mental Health. And, yeah, also if you follow me on my personal brand, I do talk a lot about these topics from the creator economy, emerging tech, including AI and the future of mental wellness as well as an advocate for that work.
[00:05:22] Shira: And. So that’s where I’m at now. And my origin story, I guess, I came to LA over 20 years ago and wanted to be a broadcaster and dabbled in traditional media and went after all the big jobs like MTV and E-entertainment and would get so close, but no cigar. And so I found myself discovering these, emerging tech communities at the time in Los Angeles and meeting these founders and people that were launching these dot coms and playing around with video and apps, and it was in a way of right place, right time.
[00:06:00] Shira: But also I’d always been someone who was like an early adopter in that way. I grew up with my dad, shout out to him, who, you know, I was the first one to have a computer or to play around with this type of stuff. So I think that it was a mixture between, you know, opportunity meets preparation, however that saying goes, and that I also grew up with entrepreneurs.
[00:06:22] Shira: So, I understood that. And for me, I had the skills of the traditional broadcast world, but passion and enthusiasm that the tech and digital startup world needed. So it was a beautiful, you know, I would say like intersection, that made it possible, I think, for me to dive in. And I did that in LA and I became just a go to person for as the digital scene was growing, like, If you needed video, hosted video, interviews, I was your person.
[00:06:56] Shira: And then that led me to creating my own little job at CBS News, where I started covering what would become a new beat, which is really digital culture and covering the viral videos and why things are going viral and trending. And then that’s where What’s Trending, my company emerged from. And we started off with CBS news.
[00:07:15] Shira: And again, I’d been working at a lot of other places. This just was like one of the paths, but you know, I was also before that at NBC and, working for Yahoo and Verizon. I mean, many companies under the sun, but this is where kind of What’s Trending came out of and we started out with a partnership with CBS News, and then we went off on our own and really started building in September 2011 onwards as more of a, our own company, independent company.
[00:07:48] Shira: And yeah, that’s led me to a crazy journey in entrepreneurship. And yeah, in between, I’ve been an afternoon drive radio host and so many other things, but that’s like one of the paths that I think that we’ll be focusing on today.
[00:08:07] Helen: Yeah. I love that. Well, and two other just, quick things to, I guess, double click on that.
[00:08:13] Helen: We both went to Emerson college. So shout out to Emerson, especially with the traditional broadcasting and communications, yeah, lots of love to Emerson. And one guest that you’ve had, which I’m, working on manifesting to get him on my show is Snoop Dogg.
[00:08:35] Shira: Yes, that was very early on, you know, we were, that’s so funny.
[00:08:40] Shira: What’s Trending, at the time, was like one of the first internet culture shows. So whenever a celebrity had something to promote that happened to be on the internet, social media app, we were the place to be because no one else was covering it. Like Entertainment Tonight wouldn’t cover it. They didn’t get it.
[00:08:53] Shira: Now, I mean, that’s different, but yeah, so I ended up building those relationships with all the celebrities that had got digital teams and were just smart, saw what was coming. And so yeah, Snoop was part of that way back. And I even, you know, during YouTube upfronts one year, I introduced him, and his performance, but I kind of got close to his team over those years.
[00:09:19] Shira: So that’s definitely a throwback.
[00:09:22] Helen: Nice. Oh, and one thing too, that, I appreciate. Well, I guess there’s just some parallels between us a little bit like when I mess up analogies left and right. So I appreciate that you do that. But I started my social media agency in 2010. And we were really early on the social media stage.
[00:09:43] Helen: So we kind of were early on that social media, you know, revolution and moment. And I went the agency route and you went the more content creator route. And, you know, fast forward, the Chat GPT moment felt like the early days of social media all over again about this big disruptive technology that’s going to impact everything.
[00:10:03] Helen: So yeah, jumped into the more content creator side, which brings us to today’s conversation. One reason why I’m super excited to bring you on the show is what I mentioned when we spoke earlier, that part of the show is envisioning, you know, future where artists and creators not only exist or coexist with AI, but thrive.
[00:10:25] Helen: And you’ve been really knee deep in the creator economy as a creator and also interviewing and going to conferences and covering. So I’m excited to dive into just what that means, where it’s been, where it’s at, and where it’s going. So with that, since you have been early on, can you kind of give us a look back of, you know, the creator economy that has kind of emerged, I guess I would put it with the Internet, right?
[00:10:54] Helen: And like, maybe like mom bloggers might’ve been like the early ones.
[00:10:58] Shira: Yeah. If you’re gonna go that [far] back, I mean, you could say, community, you know, message boards are really the first, right? And like the people that kind of emerged from that and that then, you know, bloggers and blog moms. And then of course, moving into, you know, MySpace.
[00:11:20] Shira: And then I would say, you know, Twitter before anything. And then it was really Instagram and Facebook because Facebook of course was, you know, started out as more of like a college community. And then it was more where we connected with each other versus creating content on the platform.
[00:11:35] Shira: And, so for me, the first platform, really, I remember starting out as like, to connect to people that I was meeting and new and getting followers was Twitter. MySpace, I was on, I just didn’t look at it as that at the time. It was probably a bit too young at the time, but I saw obviously you’re, following musicians, you’re following personalities. It was like the beginning of that’s like building up a celebrity on social in that way.
[00:12:02] Shira: And then of course, yeah, you have Instagram and then Vine and then Vine’s gone. And then, of course, YouTube, you know, YouTube, I think and Twitter kind of were side by side in different ways, I felt the tech community was more on Twitter and the news community. And then YouTube was just its own beast and really was emerging a bit underground, like behind the scenes from a lot of, I would say the traditional media folks or marketing or tech folks, because, you know, a lot of it was kids that were just, I hate to say the analogy in their parents basement, but you know, in the middle of nowhere, like Midwest, like not in LA or New York, they weren’t in these cities and they were just kids that were creating content and building their own communities.
[00:12:50] Shira: And then really seeing in 2008 that Emerge IRL going to the first VidCon and being like, “Whoa, wait a second.” And again, even then, I thought at the time I was late, which is hilarious, I thought, “oh my god, these people all know each other. I feel like I’m this outsider coming in.” At the time, I was doing some stuff for CBS News already covering viral videos and stars.
[00:13:16] Shira: Like it wasn’t yet creator culture, really. It was just like, “oh, you’re someone that creates videos on YouTube or you have viral moments.” But then that was a real inflection point because seeing their fans lining up IRL like it felt like the Beatles It’s a bit, you know, screaming and lining up to take pictures.
[00:13:37] Shira: I was like, “wait, what is going on?” And for me, that was the moment [where] definitely things changed. And I actually, from there started this YouTube series called Partners Project, which was supposed to be the inside the actors studio for YouTube stars. And that was as What’s Trending was emerging.
[00:13:56] Shira: And then from there, it felt like it made sense to kind of bring these people together who had, you know, the people you’re following online, in the context of a talk show to talk about the things they care about, right? And so for me, I guess that’s a bit of the history of online communities in a way, I’m probably missing something, and creator culture. And I guess, you know, I think Vine, was one of like, YouTube was monetizing, they had the partner program.
[00:14:30] Shira: And obviously then brands were interested, but I feel like Vine is where I really started seeing those like brand integrations because they didn’t really have the partner program. They didn’t have a rev[enue] share model. So that’s where I feel like you really start seeing people partner with brands to make money and campaigns in that way.
[00:14:47] Shira: Of course, What’s Trending was doing it a while back. Like we were doing campaigns. I mean, we started off because we had a deal with AT&T like, I’m like forgetting… We had a deal with AT&T. And yeah, like, is it T Mobile or AT&T? It was AT&T. And like, it was an integration into the content, right?
[00:15:10] Shira: And then it was also media buy across CBS News at the time. And so we were doing integrations on YouTube. Definitely. That was also something new. And like, really the reason why they said yes at the time is because they could kind of back up into programmatic and like traditional media. They were buying that they understood.
[00:15:30] Shira: They didn’t really understand, like the value of integrating into a digital series at the time that was starting out. And so we basically sold them on the numbers from more of an older media model that said, they said yes. And there we go. But, that’s where I see like, you know, obviously the monetization start, the success stories from the YouTube partner program.
[00:15:54] Shira: And then of course bringing, you know, brands and doing brands of content in short form, you know, that started with Vine and then moving, then those stars moving to YouTube and Instagram. So, and then where are we today? I mean, obviously Twitch is somewhere in there as well. And then, and there’s probably some other platforms that like came and went that I’m totally missing out on, but you get the gist.
[00:16:25] Shira: And I think that now we’re kind of in this place that is interesting because it’s both challenging and yet there’s a lot of opportunities. I think that again, as someone who’s a creator and also a business owner of a company that makes money on digital, you can have really good months, really good quarters, really bad months, really bad quarters.
[00:16:48] Shira: Oh yeah. And then Snap[chat], I totally forgot about Snap. Snap is in there too. And yeah, and that’s, I think the hardest part, but it’s partially also the economy. Like every business is having this and then the creator economy is reflective of that. But, it would be nice to have a bit more sustainability.
[00:17:08] Shira: And I think that YouTube did have that way back. And then when they changed their partner program a bit, and obviously as more creators came on board, it just became less and less and throwing some people out of premium. And as they say, the ad pocalypse and all that really hit creators hard and really forced creators to think outside the box and focus on other monetization streams, like another platform.
[00:17:32] Shira: Oh yeah. TikTok. Oh my God. I’m like forgetting things. Musical.ly came up. We were on Musical.ly. Musical.ly became TikTok. We’re now seeing a smorgasbord of platforms, but again, there’s only, there’s the big four. There’s now, now that I’ve gotten there, cause my brain was like, you know, the big places people are making money either all or one or the other is YouTube, Snap, Instagram, TikTok.
[00:18:00] Shira: Twitter, I would say is a side thing. It’s a very niche community making money on Twitter. And then you have the other five now, which is probably like more ownership monetization O and O. So if you have a dot com newsletter, text, even some people are into text with the community, Patreon subscription. So there you go.
[00:18:20] Shira: That is the ecosystem we have. I think, that’s it. And I would say even off this, then you have other models that creators can make money from: consulting, advising, products, deal, events, speaking.
[00:18:35] Helen: I could probably do a quick Google search, but for those, like, we all kind of know that there’s a creator economy, but I think one thing that I don’t know off the top of my head is like, you have people like Mr. Beast, that’s making bank and kind of, you know, his own category and all of this. but then you have so many creators that, you know, maybe it’s user generated content with maybe a little trickle of money coming down, here, and there. But what’s the sense of like, is it mostly, for the most part side hustles or is it enough where people like enough creators are making a living off of this new creator economy that we’re in? I kind of don’t have a good sense of [that], I guess.
[00:19:26] Shira: Yeah. I mean, and there’s been some reports about this, but again, how honest are these reports? So, I’m just looking this up right now because I’ve seen it, but I didn’t have it on me. So, in the US this is a, take this [with a grain of salt], I just Googled this. In the US there are 27 million paid creators, which is 14 percent of the population between the ages of 16 and 54.
[00:19:52] Shira: Ten percent of influencers can earn a hundred thousand or more per year. 26 percent make 1000 or less. There you go. That was that answer. So I would say for a lot of people, it was a side hustle. I think very few people are – like, and what is really like, I think what’s like full time, you know, we’re each a small business.
[00:20:15] Shira: So we’re a new class of small business. Small businesses even have different revenue streams and even another business, if you had one part of your business that was making a bulk of the money, if you were smart, you would say, “okay, that’s great, but hey, if this dries up, I’m going to be screwed. So I’m going to like, look at other ways to make money and like, take advantage of the real estate I have here and like what I built in the credibility.
[00:20:41] Shira: So I look at the creator business as a similar thing. And so when you own, like, I hate the idea of like full time. It’s like when you’re a business owner, you’re full time doesn’t mean you’re always making money. You know, because there’s a lot that goes into that. So I just feel like that it’s a reality we need to talk about because like, again, there’s this glamor and like these misconceptions about being a creator, including for the younger generation who everyone wants to be an influencer.
[00:21:11] Shira: And then the reality is like, it is a lot of work. It’s not sustainable. And that might not work for everyone. Similar being a business owner. is up and down how very few percent of people actually succeed. So it’s like, these are very similar stories. So if we look at it more like that, we can, you know, one, understand the realities of it, but also not give it this horrible rap because like, this is the reality of business, including in a precarious field that is new and an industry that is just like being created.
[00:21:45] Shira: And that is unstable. So, you know, you have to know what you’re signing up for.
[00:21:51] Helen: And I guess one thing that, you know, I spend a lot of time thinking about, and I know you do too, is we’re both kind of in this sandbox, so to speak, or playground, and I’m making a bet to really have this podcast and, you know, my book, future book, and all and speaking and stuff really supplant all my revenue and income from my social media agency, is the plan.
[00:22:20] Helen: So I’m betting kind of on this model moving forward. And it seems like, well, I mentioned to you, my presentation, Farewell Information Age, Welcome To The Imagination Age. And if you see like in the industrial revolution, it was like the steel and manufacturing and then information age, the big five, what is it?
[00:22:43] Helen: Amazon, Facebook, Google. And one other that I’m forgetting off the top of my head, are the big players, but like, what are the companies doing really well right now? Adobe, Reddit is taking over, like all user generate content. It seems like the creator economy is becoming more of a force. And then we have like potentially, you know, NFTs and smart contracts and new revenue models that it’s only going to become more stable.
[00:23:13] Helen: At least that’s what I’m hoping. Is that kind of, do you see that too? Or I guess, where do you see where it’s going?
[00:23:19] Shira: Yeah, I guess there’s different. Yeah. What you just said parts of the creator economy. Of course it’s built on the backs of creators and users clearly, but then, yeah, there’s the tech, the creative companies that build around it, like Adobe, like Canva.
[00:23:38] Shira: Then there’s the data companies that build around it. Then there’s the, you know, brands that build around it. Those are the influencer marketing agencies that build around it. And then there’s also like products and companies. So like, again, it’s a whole ecosystem. And I do think that at different parts in different times, like that ecosystem is in flux.
[00:24:03] Shira: It’s like, so you might see movement to one area and then the other area kind of cools down, right? Like, I don’t think they’re all hot at once necessarily. There’s movement and motion to it, but they feed into one another. Yeah. I think that the biggest thing I’ve always said, even as like a media brands and business, like I wish I did more tech because again, it’s like the typical thing of tech and scale.
[00:24:31] Shira: When you’re building content I think the issue is that the way to scale content is again, it’s, not difficult, I guess, for some people, it is. It requires other people. So, to have a platform that is so energized and vibrant that other people want to just play in there is an amazing thing. It’s also a rare thing. Like, you know how many times I have a platform where they’re like, “we’re providing a better rev share, you get more ownership, you own the audience,” and I’m like, “but no one is there.”
[00:25:05] Shira: So like, in order to get creators on board, either there needs to be money there up front, even if there’s no one there. Or a ton of people there that they can’t help but need to be there because business models are moving there and community is there. So they want to take from that community. Right? So like if you just have a model and an idea of how creators can make more money, we would all have that.
[00:25:28] Shira: We would all build a business around that. It requires that, that magic intersection of community and revenue models. And a lot of times if you have the community and the build and the scale, according to Instagram, which I find hard to believe in, like, Adam Rosari, who’s like the head there. He was like, you know, “we’ve tried the monetization thing.
[00:25:50] Shira: It just doesn’t work for the model, like of us, what we need to do to make money and then you,” and I’m like, “no, that’s an excuse,” but we have these clashes of what scale and tech means in a company in order to support an ecosystem that is building on it. And again, we need to be able to find some sort of solution.
[00:26:11] Shira: Like if we can figure out how to use AI for, God knows what at this point, like, I don’t get how we can’t use AI and this tech to figure out how to help both sides make money. I don’t get why it’s one or the other. That should have never been in the equation, but the problem is, you know, the thing is, it always became like, well, people just want to share and connect with each other.
[00:26:32] Shira: And I think that the technologists that built it, at least, like, they’re not creatives. They don’t get what goes into it and they didn’t see it as maybe something that people would maybe build their careers on. If you’re just talking about like ways I want to just connect and do that, like, yeah, I want to share something.
[00:26:47] Shira: I want to share a viral moment. It’s happenstance. But when you’re starting to talk about me being more intentional and creating space in my schedule and calendar and relying on your platform for my living, then things change. And that’s a beautiful thing because that means the community is kind of like directing you as to where the tech should go ad what that means.
[00:27:10] Shira: I mean, [I think every] founder wants that because you have to do less work. It’s like, you just rely on the community to figure out. But I think as then founders or as executive teams, your job then, if the community is telling you what they want, where they want to go in their building [of] that is to say, “Okay, well, how do we build a sustainable ecosystem for that versus one that takes?” And I do think we’re in a bit of a toxic relationship right now. That won’t end.
[00:27:38] Helen: And all the platforms need the users and the creatives. That’s how they thrive is us creating content that they’re repackaging. Out of the platforms out there and, Pinterest is another one that I’ll throw into the equation. It’s kind of like a quiet sleepy one.
[00:27:56] Shira: LinkedIn now too. Those are the ones that people, the “next” next that people are paying attention to. Right. Yeah, totally.
[00:28:02] Helen: Yeah. I’m definitely spending probably the most time on, on LinkedIn these days, but out of all the platforms, which one in your mind is doing the best job of actually sharing the revenue and paying the creators?
[00:28:18] Shira: The only platform that consistently does that’s not including a bonus structure. Bonus structures are great but it’s not a model. It means like they’re doing bonuses for the first six months while they’re trying to plug out this, the tool that they’re building or, what they want you to use.
[00:28:38] Shira: So for me, that’s cute. It’s not, you know, it’s like a consulting deal while you’re working full time somewhere, you know, you know, it’s going to end at a certain point, but you’re still working full time. So, I, would like a bonus structure plus consistent, you know, revenue. And then if you double down on that, you get bonuses.
[00:28:59] Shira: So really YouTube is still the only place. And then, you know, Threads and Instagram, people are getting bonuses here and there, but it’s few and far between. And then TikTok, there’s some organization there, but again, barely. So don’t let people think, get you to think that TikTok is like this crazy, modernization place.
[00:29:20] Helen: Well, is TikTok even going to be here, you know, after January?
[00:29:23] Shira: And so, so really where, at least for me, but I know for other people, where most of the money comes from is brand deals and integrations. And so, you know, like in the end, in order to get $5,000 off a video on any of these platforms, how much, how many views do you need to get.
[00:29:44] Shira: But, you get $5,000 and that pays for your time to create the video plus, you know, basically them renting your platform to advertise on. And if brands are smart, you know, I wish more brands [would] do this. They could use your videos and ad assets to then continue promoting their product. And some people do that.
[00:30:06] Shira: And it’s, I think that’s the smart thing cause like if you were going to hire as like your social media agency or creative agency or any sort of production house to produce video, guess what? It probably would be $15,000 just to produce it minimum, minimum, plus then you have no platform you’re going to put it on except yours.
[00:30:26] Shira: So you’re getting both with creators. And even then you’re underpaying, but I get it because the economy is changing. That model isn’t working as much, but still, I think with that in mind, like creators, most of the times are being underpaid. So you know, a lot of times we’ll be like, “well, for this following, we don’t pay this” and you’re like, “you’re not just paying for the following.
[00:30:48] Shira: You’re paying for my time to create, like to ideate, to shoot a video, to edit a video. There’s other people I hire for this. To go back and forth mayber like two editing rounds for you. Then you’re also paying for, yes, if that, if this platform, these followers are worth this, then okay, I’ll give that to you, pay me $3,000 or $5,000 and then pay me another $3,000, $5,000 for my time.
[00:31:15] Shira: But I’m integrating my time into that. So if anything, you’re getting a good deal.
[00:31:23] Helen: A really good deal.
[00:31:24] Shira: Anyway, like I do love how that is possible. Listen, I used to work like full time at a radio show. And I literally got paid what [I make] in a month when I get paid for one video. So that’s awesome, but I don’t have a 401k and I have to pay for my own health insurance. And at least I know that money’s coming in every month.
[00:31:42] Shira: There could be like one month where I get like four brand deals and then like three months where I get nothing. So on a personal level, my personal brands.
[00:31:51] Helen: And it’s, definitely a rollercoaster. Well, and a thing that’s come up on the show, just recently, the one, actually coming out as we’re recording, with, Dr. Walter D, Grayson and actually Kaila Love, who’s, a hip hop artist and rapper. One of the things that came up in conversations with them is they’re really excited about new opportunities for economic freedom to leverage all these new tools too. And Walter didn’t say this, but, Kaila’s really about automation and multiple revenue streams too.
[00:32:30] Helen: And she dabbled with NFTs, but I know you were early on the NFT blockchain too. And you didn’t mention any of that as the current state and the creator economy. Do you see that as still viable or still coming?
[00:32:46] Shira: Yeah, I do think in the heat of the moment, like in the height of it, it was because a lot of people were there who were excited to engage.
[00:32:58] Shira: I do think it’s harder now. And I do think that it does work for some people. Like I know a lot of artists who have their own communities and the issue with NFTs and Web3 is it’s not just about having your community from everything else. It’s like, it’s a very specific community that engages in that way sometimes. Even for someone like Liam Payne, unfortunately, who I’m mentioning, who’s no longer with us, his manager who I know well, was doing NFTs for him.
[00:33:33] Shira: And even that, like with a concert of how many people I think they had, a pretty good conversion rate, but like, they didn’t say it was an NFT, but it was like, Oh, get our fan collectible. And maybe they had, I should go in the email. I have the email, but like the engagement was a lot for that, but that was a celebrity like that.
[00:33:55] Shira: Right? Where, of course, people want to collect things. So I think that it can be hard unless you get deep in the community and then that’s even more work, right? And so, I think that there’s a lot of good side opportunities, but then to just rely on that and Web3 for, again, the be all end all of your brand right now and your revenue stream, is probably not the way to go.
[00:34:21] Shira: Well, I do think, yeah, again, as a visual artist, even as a filmmaker, there’s like a lot of grants within companies, like no one is going after because they don’t know about it. So I look at more of those spaces as, you know, doors to go through that not a lot of people are seeing that can support you either with a project you’re having a hard time getting support within the traditional field and like, how do you experiment with that community and those maybe revenue paths for you?
[00:34:51] Shira: And money, like there is money there to support creatives. For me, I definitely benefited from that. Like I was a consultant advisor. I collected NFTs from female founded companies and brands that I really liked and that I wanted to engage with.
[00:35:11] Shira: And I still love the community and I do believe in blockchain tech, but I had to step back because I felt like I became known as this like NFT girl in LA and in Hollywood. And in Hollywood right now, there aren’t a lot of opportunities in Web3 and blockchain. And so I saw the writing on the wall and I’m like, well, I’ve had a whole career before this, and I know a lot more than just the Web3 and blockchain tech.
[00:35:37] Shira: And I feel like I’m pigeonholing myself. And so I really had to, for me, strategically expand out of that into more of like, I’m about emerging tech and the creator economy. And of course, NFTs and Web3 is part of that, and I’m happy to talk about that, but it’s not the entirety of my career and my brand and my work right now.
[00:35:58] Helen: And one thing I want to mention, and I tried to look it up really quickly; as far as what you mentioned about paying for your own health insurance, which, you know, I’m in that category too. I guess, other things in the ecosystem is new opportunities for gig work to get health insurance and stuff.
[00:36:18] Helen: And there’s like the freelancers union, which is out of Brooklyn, and I’m not sure if their insurance that they offer is just New York state or national, but I think more services like that will start popping up too, cause you have an entire, not even outside the gig economy, like your Uber drivers and stuff, a ton of gig work right now outside of the traditional, you know, regular employment type of thing.
[00:36:47] Shira: Yeah. And I’m happy you mentioned that by the way, that’s something I’m thinking a lot of when it comes to the creator economy and, you know, again, SAG as a union is trying to get creators in more so that we get protections. There’s the Creators Guild of America, CGA. Don’t necessarily think those are home runs as a solution right now.
[00:37:17] Shira: You know, LA folks and New York folks maybe know SAG, like there’s a lot of other creators out there. Are they going to be joining SAG? I’m not sure. I don’t know if it’s relevant for them or if it would, yeah, if they’re going to be able to get even enough credits where it matters. So, you know, I’m definitely, that’s something I’m thinking about.
[00:37:35] Shira: That’s all I’ll say. Part of protecting creators and part of creating a sustainable ecosystem is making sure that we can, yeah, again, there’s some guidelines to how we get to work together and protect one another. And, how do we get our basics taken care of or at a discount, since there’s a lot of us. How do we get access to, better priced mental health care as well as regular health care?
[00:38:05] Helen: Well, and that’s a good tee up to talk about something else that you think a lot about and care a lot about, and that’s creators and mental health. So I’d love for you to kind of share your current projects and how that came about and why it’s so important to you, right in this moment in time specifically.
[00:38:23] Shira: Yeah. I appreciate that. Well, I had my own ups and downs being in the digital media space for a while and just my own experience in it and just story, you know, my unique story in life. And that led me on my own personal growth and mental health journey a few years ago, pre COVID. And, then I found myself trying to figure out how I bring it into the work I do.
[00:38:51] Shira: And at the time the work, of course, was very pop culture tech. And I was like, “Oh, this is going to be awkward, off putting, cringy,” to like do this on my personal brand. And I took the leap and I decided just to share my truth, which is like very true. The truth will set you free. And I started feeling more myself.
[00:39:10] Shira: There was still some little judgments and insecurities that come up, but overall, it really led me on more of a purposeful path and journey that has influenced the work I’m doing. And so I’m really grateful for that. And I started a wellness organization with a friend of mine who was really part of that Jordana Reem, because we had gone on this really life changing trip to Everest base camp in 2019.
[00:39:37] Shira: And, from there, that’s how I started co-creating that content. And so in 2020, we launched Peace Inside Live, and we were doing virtual classes, donation based during that crisis moment. And then we moved into corporate wellness because I had a lot of brand relationships from What’s Trending, et cetera.
[00:39:58] Shira: And so approaching those brands to say, “Hey, I know you know me from What’s Trending and like sponsor integrations, but you know, who do you have your organization that does this?” And they were like, “wow, that’s really cool what you’re doing, Shira.” And so we had some success in that and even bringing it to the Web3 world, which is of course; it like definitely needs mindfulness and mental health because they’re constantly connected and 24/7 and it’s a industry that exists on FOMO. And actually we created a journal called the JOMO journal inspired by that, which you could buy on Amazon or our website right now. Great gift for yourself or someone else this holiday season.
[00:40:38] Shira: And through that whole journey and I’m getting hired and then just kind of figuring out the next… the next opportunity, I guess more recently this past year, both of my worlds finally came together, the creator world and the mental health world. And we did a proof of concept event in LA in June called Creators For Mental Health, had some sponsorships.
[00:41:04] Shira: And then [in] October, we did one with Shopify and really this is my big focus going into 2025, is bringing mental wellness tools to the creator economy and the creators, our communities, and even the companies around it. And how do we have these events? How do we integrate it into accelerators, into companies, into platforms?
[00:41:33] Shira: I mean, there’s so much of that with the next generation. Well, I think there’s a stat, like 60 percent of them want to be influencers and creators. How do we make sure the space is a safe one that can support them as much as possible? We can’t obviously control people’s lives, you know, there’s lessons they will learn as they grow, including ourselves.
[00:41:53] Shira: There’s lessons we will continue to learn despite being told otherwise and that there’s another option. However, the more we can create those guardrails and support system, I think the better. And so I’m super excited about that. And you know, it, it makes everything I’ve been through and some of the pain and hardships feel at least, it was there for a reason to then bring me here.
[00:42:20] Shira: So yeah, I’m really excited about next year. I’m already having so many conversations with brands about some big things, as well as a really cool study that I’m working on around creators and mental health. So more to come.
[00:42:34] Helen: Thank you for sharing that. And I guess for the creators listening, what are some resources or top three things that you know, you, like, part of your messaging or for them to keep in mind to just manage their well being as a creator?
[00:42:51] Shira: Yeah, follow me, Shira Lazar. I’ll be your bestie mentor. But no, I think it’s about figuring out where you’re at on your mental health journey, right? We’re all in different places and then figuring out the tools that you need to thrive. And that might mean different things for each of us. Like, you know, we each have different positive coping strategies and mechanisms.
[00:43:19] Shira: So for me, my sleep is really important. You know, having enough sleep and building my schedule around that and making sure I’m in a place where I’m drinking enough water and eating the right things and going outside because you’re so connected, creating boundaries around phone use, right?
[00:43:37] Shira: Because we not just live our lives on these phones, but for a lot of us who work on these devices, it’s intertwined. And so definitely creating boundaries around that. And I would say, finally, a support system so that, you know, when you are having a hard time, you have someone to talk to. And I would say on a personal but professional side to like this work in this business, not a lot of people understand.
[00:44:04] Shira: So you might feel like you’re the only one going through this. Like, I can’t really talk to my friends or my parents about it or, my partner. And so having people you know, that are your peers, and then also this is where, you know, finding a manager or someone that’s a professional in the space to like, say, “I’m feeling this,” or like, “I’m unsure about where my brand’s going. I’m feeling like plateaued in my growth.”
[00:44:29] Shira: You can talk to someone about it because you will realize that one, it’s totally normal and that you’re not alone. A lot of people are going through the same thing and then you could share tools and advice and all that. And that will make you feel less alone, which is I think just really important.
[00:44:47] Shira: And then again, with all of that. Double tapping on the not doing it alone, yeah, knowing the moment you’re feeling alienated in your process and that you just are overwhelmed, there’s only so much you could handle, making sure you’re getting that support. I have a social media producer and editor, like I hated doing that.
[00:45:09] Shira: It gave me anxiety. It gave me anxiety to upload. And so I get support with that. And then a mental health professional as well, always helps if that’s your thing, but you need to figure out what your thing is. It could be that, group therapy. It could be online anonymous doing that. But, yeah.
[00:45:25] Helen: One thing that you just mentioned about a support network, and I know you, recently did some content around, the teenager who had an AI girlfriend, that ended up committing suicide.
[00:45:41] Helen: And I wasn’t intending to bring this up on the show, but I think it’s really important to talk about, because we do have a loneliness epidemic in this country. And, you know, being a creator and it’s only going to continue to grow the whole, how many creators can be lonely and, you know, these AI things can help, but at the end of the day, it’s human, to human, to human, to human connection.
[00:46:08] Helen: That’s really, really important. And that the more I think about that story, Like the more it just makes my blood boil, because these products are just being released so recklessly. I don’t know if you listen, do you listen to Hard Fork, the New York Times podcast with Casey Newton and Kevin Roose.
[00:46:28] Shira: No.
[00:46:30] Helen: It’s really good. And I think it was last week’s episode that covered this, but I think it was Kevin who also did a story for the New York Times on it, said that one of the original founders, said like, “oh, we’re not in the medical field. we can make mistakes when it comes to like solving loneliness through friends.”
[00:46:53] Helen: Like, that’s the mentality of like, oh, it’s just loneliness. Like, in friendship, like it’s not medical. So we don’t need as many guardrails and we can make mistakes. And then the story happened. And then it’s like, so like mental health is a health issue, first of all. And then who’s funding these people, who aren’t putting proper guardrails at all, and they, I forget, this is Character AI, they’ve raised, like, I know it’s over $150 million in one of their rounds, like, and they’re getting funded.
[00:47:25] Shira: That’s because like when people look at these things, they’re not looking at from a nuanced perspective, right?
That humans are using this, right? And so as humans, we are layered and nuanced. We have our own things like that we bring to the table when using this, which makes the product a completely different thing.
[00:47:40] Shira: And we need to force founders and developers and builders to be thinking holistically about this, not just about the tech experience, the product experience, but the human experience. And I do believe they can do this. These people are that smart. I think, unfortunately, they have not been pushed and challenged and called forth to do that in the past.
[00:48:01] Shira: And they’ve relied on the excuse of, “it’s not a responsibility. This is what not what the tech is made for.” That is an irresponsible response. And they know better. They’re doing it to protect themselves. And it’s like, read the room. It’s so tone deaf. And I expect more. And I could see how, you know, the [pitch] deck of this company where it’s like, “Ooh, you say, I, and you can build characters.
[00:48:30] Shira: And it’s super creative and people build worlds and talk to each other.” And not thinking, “okay, well, what’s the worst case scenario?” Like we are in a time where we need to be thinking about the worst case scenario and preparing for that. Of course, unfortunately, there’s going to be things that happen that we are not going to see.
[00:48:50] Shira: We have our own blinders, biases, all this limitations, but the minute it does happen, we are in a place to take accountability and make a change. And that’s what’s not happening in tack, including with unfortunately, these men who run these companies. I’m not going to say women don’t take accountability, but you know, I do think it’s like this whole thing that they have never been in a place like this to be called out in this way.
[00:49:13] Shira: And like, they’re so just stuck in the privilege they’ve had to build these things and raise this money that I think they refuse to see the importance of doing this right now, and that will be, to their fault in their own self destruction. And I don’t think there’s any excuse to like, to respond to a situation like this and to use a lawyer, obviously response. There’s a way to legally protect yourself while also being human.
[00:49:48] Helen: I am going to play a clip from Cindy Gallop, who’s been on the show.
[00:49:54] Shira: I love Cindy Gallop!
[00:49:55] Helen: She, this clip speaks directly to what you’re saying, that it’s women and underrepresented voices that get the brunt of the worst of the internet. And we build with safety in mind first and not as an afterthought. So we’ll play that clip.
[00:50:10] Cindy: Young white male founders of the giant tech platforms that dominate all our lives today, including Open AI. They are not the primary targets online or offline of harassment, abuse, sexual assault, racism, violence, rape, revenge porn. Therefore they did not, and they do not, proactively design for the prevention of any of those things on any of their platforms.
[00:50:39] Cindy: And we see the results of that around us every single day, as we just have done with the Taylor Swift deepfakes. Those of us who are most at risk every single day: Women, black people of color, LGBTQ, people with disabilities. We design safe spaces and safe experiences, but we don’t get funded.
[00:51:04] Cindy: Last year, only 1.7 percent of all venture capital went to female founders. White male VCs are funding white male founders. And that is the problem right there.
[00:51:18] Helen: In addition to what you said too, like in terms of like putting pressure on all the companies, I am pro balanced regulation, just for the record since we’re recording this.
[00:51:28] Helen: And also, like the VCs, like they need to [have] pressure on [them] too, because they’re funding and enabling these companies. Like as a VC, before you invest, you should check out, like, is it responsible AI, what are the guardrails? And if it deals with loneliness, are there like psychologists or experts or whatever needed to make sure that the product is actually safe for the users?
[00:51:53] Shira: See, this is where if AI is used as an assistant, it’s dealing with humans. So all these companies probably should have mental professionals working with them and consulting with them. Period. It should just be part of your leadership team, part of the development team, just like you have, you know, the AI builders, developers, the AI ethics, like, this should be part of these teams.
[00:52:18] Shira: Even if you don’t have a mental health tool or platform, it ultimately impacts people’s behavior and mental health. It’s like, this isn’t rocket science.
[00:53:05] Helen: Yeah, yes, everything impacts, yeah.
[00:53:31] Shira: Like, what are you, like, that’s cray cray. Like, we are living in, like, the upside down here, and we’re already seeing it. So, hello, like, you know, Einstein said, “doing the same thing, expecting if results will make you crazy.” We’re seeing in a very short amount of time, thankfully, unfortunately. the results. So what are we going to do about it? Are we going to continue just like, “oh, well, we’re already building, we’re already doing this.
[00:52:55] Shira: And like, we didn’t expect this. Okay. Well, it happened.” Now, what do you do? It shifts how you build. You need to respond to the moment. Like, what the fuck is going on?
[00:53:07] Helen: We’re both like, so riled up because the other thing too, that I was going to add on top of that is like, this shouldn’t be a surprise. This isn’t like… we’ve had over a decade of social media and know that we have people teen depression and suicide from social media.
[00:53:24] Helen: So what are you thinking that something even more intimate as a “friend” isn’t problematic? Like you’re talking about, you know, building on all this data and stuff. Why don’t we look at the past decade of data that’s going to tell you that you need to take this serious? I saw an ad by Meta, last night, too.
[00:53:45] Helen: I think I, put this on my Instagram stories, where it was for Ray Bans, and, the ad copy said something of like, “let Ray Ban tell AI, tell you what’s most important.” I’m like, “okay, so this is the company, [who’s] algorithm [is] optimized for sensationalism, is now going to be in our ears telling us what’s most important. Oh yeah. That doesn’t sound like a disaster waiting to happen.”
[00:54:09] Shira: Listen, I like the team, meaning… I’m not talking about like, I like the – I work with our creator team. Everyone’s very nice. That said, it has-
[00:54:18] Helen: Oh I have a a lot of friends on facebook too.
[00:54:22] Shira: Let’s talk about this. Even that tagline, like who in marketing, like a focus group, be like, we need to remind people that, I mean, this is the thing. I think we are losing our sense that we know who we are and what we know is important. Right? Like we have sovereignty over that. And our biggest gift as humans is our sense of self.
[00:54:42] Shira: And only each of us know what we can enjoy, what brings us purpose, all that. These things, these tools can help, but we have actually that inner wisdom and we are being taught that we need external things to help us get there. And this is the main issue. If, you know, a responsible thing would be let the Ray Ban glasses, like, you know, support you in seeing all the beauty around you in your life or like in capturing that like seeing what’s important really.
[00:55:15] Shira: It’s like, well then what happens when my Ray Ban glasses go out of battery or I lose them. Can I no longer see what’s important in my life? I don’t have that capacity? I mean, it’s like taking away our personal power. So I’m more worried about that than regulations like I think we’re using regulations as an excuse to not put guardrails and not hold companies accountable to doing the right thing and looking at their tech and builds in a nuanced way.
[00:55:43] Shira: Like let’s not override that. It’s like a fallacy, right? When you’re saying like, “Oh, it’s one or the other, right?” So I just want to preface that, but yeah, and I know that you probably think the same thing, but it’s not just you. It’s so many other people. “There’s like, whoa, whoa wait, the regulation. The regulation, I’m so scared.”
[00:56:02] Shira: And it’s like, there’s many other things to be more scared about at this point, that we’re seeing the results of, then something that we haven’t even done, that anything at this point could help. Let’s just start testing things out instead of doing the same thing and expecting different results.
[00:56:17] Helen: And I’m with you. And I don’t think it’s just regulation that’s needed, but like self regulation doesn’t work. And we absolutely know that and public pressure and personal agency. The one thing, I guess, it’s a lot to put it on one person. And this is from the first Tristan Harris TED talk that went viral of like, it’s all on you to manage the onslaught of all this noise.
[00:56:45] Helen: Like it needs to be a multifaceted, effort. And I do love that you said like personal power, because I did a post on LinkedIn the other day about this article too. And the point was we can’t normalize this and accept it as like, collateral damage for tech progress because that excuse gets used all the time.
[00:57:08] Helen: And we’re already desensitized to like school shootings. We can’t just become desensitized to this. So I think we all need to get outraged. And then one of the comments on that post was like, “well, if nothing’s done, this is going to be what’s happened.” I was like, nothing is inevitable, but people already like on a post that’s like, we can’t accept this accepting it.
[00:57:29] Helen: And I was just like, this is… I worry sometimes,
[00:57:33] Shira: You know, I think that we’re creating new models as we go, but yeah, it is worrisome that people don’t see this. I don’t think pointing fingers at just one thing is, a solution. I think that it is a blend of what you just said. It’s a holistic perspective of tech, working with government, working with the human, the consumer, the creator, and this is the new Illuminati.
[00:57:54] Shira: It’s a trifecta. It’s a trifecta approach, right? And we each need one another as we move and grow and build. I think that again, the pointing of fingers just creates a lack of solution and an easy way to take accountability off of that person, that company.
[00:58:20] Shira: And so I think the more we look at that, the more we can say, okay, the solution needs to integrate all three.
[00:58:26] Helen: I couldn’t agree more. I know we’re getting, short in time and we got all riled up for, the topic.
[00:58:33] Shira: These podcasts are getting too boring. We need to get riled up.
[00:58:39] Helen: When Shira and I were prepping, it was like, it’s so easy to go to the doom and gloom with, you know, AI in the future, which we just did. But like, what are the positive stories and where are we going? So, kind of like from today’s conversation, it’s mental health needs to be addressed from all angles.
[00:58:59] Helen: Pay creators, that model needs to happen. What are some of your other wishlist items, so that we can like thrive as the creator economy grows?
[00:59:09] Shira: Yeah, for me, I would love to wake up and just like [have] someone to tell me, you know, a baseline of like, here’s what you’re like, you need to know based on your interests and how you behave and all that, you know, maybe what you want to post on each of these platforms that will allow for, you know, more engagement, more growth.
[00:59:29] Shira: Like that, I think is, I mean, part of it and Justine Bateman would think otherwise, because, you know, you want to continue your creative muscle, but sometimes it’s like more of like a creative assistance. And like, you would, by the way, hire someone for this, but a lot of people don’t have the money to hire someone for their like social media producer assistant.
[00:59:48] Shira: So what if I had that, you know, as an AI that was like, “okay, here’s what I want you to shoot today. Here’s what I want you to do.” Of course I have input in that and I can tweak it, but it becomes like, you know, it comes there as a baseline for me to work from versus waking up and being like, “okay, another day I get to work alone.
[01:00:06] Shira: And self motivate, and look at every platform and get overwhelmed before I can even post.” So, that for me would be great. It’s like that kind of creator assistant in a pocket. And I know different companies are trying this, but still just, it’s a lot. I don’t think we’re there and so that’s ultimately what I would like, because then I can, I guess keep up with things at my own pace and get that support I need and not feel like it’s just my brain working and there’s like other inputs and feedback that I trust and yeah I get to create better and I won’t even want to say more because I think we are getting into more of a quality content output than more. There will be so many AI and bots that will put out more and so you don’t want to be like a McDonald’s. You want to be more of a mom and pop maybe, like someone knows you, they know what to expect or your premium or again, you’re more niche right? Like the humans are gonna end up, there will be humans that become like mass producers, but I do think what will separate us from the AI and the machine accounts will be that personalization.
[01:01:28] Shira: And maybe you’re not outputting that much content, but what you put out is special and is meaningful and it’s valuable. So these are different things I’m thinking about. And ultimately that allows me, you know, if you take that time off of my schedule where it’s being used more efficiently in the optimistic sense.
[01:01:48] Shira: It’s not like I could then do more. Like I could do more things that matter. So maybe I could be more of service and volunteer. I could be with my family. I could go outside and then, yeah, do all those things that we know support ourselves as humans. And then bring back that joy into the work I do because it’s more balanced. And I’m doing more for myself and then that influences maybe me to shift into something I wasn’t going to shift into because I had more space on the other side to be Shira, not just be output Shira.
[01:02:21] Helen: And there’s a interview. Did you ever come across Miss Excel by any chance? I’ll also, I’ll include the link in the dedicated accompanying blog posts and send it to you.
[01:02:35] Helen: She has a really interesting approach of, she gets into flow state and kind of uses manifesting tools and, she’s figured out the model. And then she gets these viral ideas, but when she’s on camera, because she’s got this whole calmness, like her, she sees like her energy really coming through the screen and stuff.
[01:02:59] Helen: So everything that you just said about, freeing up your time, like, it actually enables you to show up digitally even better, because that energy is flowing through you, you know, so it, it benefits everyone, like the creator and the viewers.
[01:03:16] Shira: Yeah, we’re consuming. If we’re all like, if the world is energy, right?
[01:03:22] Shira: And what we’re consuming is energy, you know, then if we’re consuming something AI, is that energy, like, what are we actually consuming? Is it junk food? Right? Or is it just flat? Right? I think that’s really interesting. And so if you think about the people, and this is why you unfollow people that give you bad vibes or that are bringing you down, because that’s true.
[01:03:44] Shira: It’s like, that is energy. You don’t need to be around someone in person, at an event, dinner, this or that to get them to suck your energy, Right? And so like, also be responsible for the energy you put out there, not just IRL, but online, which means taking care of yourself because people are consuming that.
[01:04:03] Shira: And again, someone’s more likely, even if you don’t go viral, but like the people that do consume that content will feel better if you feel better. That said, I always tell creators, cause like the biggest thing we deal with is like, again, being in the place of like, well, I wasn’t in the mood to create and then just like, create, create, create. It doesn’t mean you have to be in the best mood, the best vibes, the best state. Sometimes like, as we know, Taylor Swift creates amazing work when she’s sad and angry, but again, it goes back to making sure you’re working on yourself. So that what you’re putting out there, you’re proud of because when you’re proud of it and it’s aligned and authentic, then it makes more sense for what you’re trying to build.
[01:04:41] Shira: So yeah, it’s all, in many ways connected. I was going to say, one more thing and I think that as folks that are privileged and we are able, that we forget how much these tools help those who really need them. Those in the disability community, those who might not have yet certain access that we have and so as ableist folks having these conversations about, oh, how horrible all this stuff is.
[01:05:12] Shira: There’s a huge group of people that if they didn’t have these tools, they could not live. And so we also have to remember that as we’re one, you know, building for everyone and also representing these tools for everyone. I’ll just, remind people about that. I interviewed Molly Burke, who’s a blind creator.
[01:05:34] Shira: And, you know, she’s like, “I love AI, I’ve been using AI forever,” like, of course there’s things to look out for, but like, for someone like her, like, this is how she functions and thrives daily. And yet we’re fighting and arguing about these things that, like, or someone that might have some sort of neurodegenerative disease who now can put a chip in their brain or, you know what I mean? Like use AI to do something and yet we’re saying like, “I don’t want to be man versus machine” and I’m like totally valid. But yet some of these people are now able to live their lives. So like yeah Let’s look at the holistic if we’re gonna look at a theme like a holistic nuanced perspective of all of this.
[01:06:15] Helen: Yeah, I appreciate you saying that.
[01:06:16] Helen: And I think the, I did a conversation like this with Eric Solomon offline, but might bring it into a series for the show of like “counterpoint, counterpoint, and think about this,” of like, I think the, I agree with you and I’m pro inclusiveness of all abilities and thought diversity, neurodiversity, but specifically to your point ability that it’s really easy to start with, and this is the nuanced piece of using disability of like how this is going to help the world and enter and then to commercialize it and miss a lot of the thoughtfulness when it enters mass market because it wins the hearts over early on of helping you know, the disabled. And then like, where’s the intentionality when it’s rolled out to everyone, too?
[01:07:09] Helen: Like, I think it’s yes, and we just have to be really careful that we’re still every part of the process, like, critical on it, too.
[01:07:19] Shira: But skepticism should happen from all of us, even those who benefit from it. So that is hugely important. All this, like when you look at an optimistic perspective of tech, it is not rainbows and unicorns and everything is great and perfect and we’re all going to be, no, that is not it.
[01:07:35] Shira: It means that you’re again, seeing it in a holistic way and nuanced way. I’ll continue saying those two words. And then bringing forth both conversations, not even an argument, but both realities so that you can find solutions. It’s gotta be reasonable, right?
[01:07:54] Helen: And hire diverse people that will enable your products to be more diverse out the gate.
[01:08:01] Helen: Okay. I know we’re short on time. One last question that I ask all of my guests. If you want our viewers and audience to remember one thing, what’s that one thing that you’d like them to walk away with today?
[01:08:13] Shira: It starts with you and it ends on you. So work on you.
[01:08:17] Helen: Perfect. Thank you so much for all of your time.
[01:08:20] Helen: We covered so much today. I so appreciate it and happy Halloween and have a wonderful weekend.
[01:08:26] Shira: Yes. Thank you.
[01:08:30] Helen: Thank you for spending some time with us today. We’re just getting started and would love your support. Subscribe to Creativity Squared on your preferred podcast platform and leave a review.
[01:08:39] Helen: It really helps. And I’d love to hear your feedback. What topics are you thinking about and want to dive into more? I invite you to visit CreativitySquared.com to let me know. And while you’re there, be sure to sign up for our free weekly newsletter so you can easily stay on top of all the latest news at the intersection of AI and creativity.
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[01:09:22] Helen: And a big, big thank you to everyone who’s offered their time, energy, and encouragement and support so far. I really appreciate it from the bottom of my heart. This show is produced and made possible by the team at Play Audio Agency. Until next week, keep creating.