Ep2. Jey Van-Sharp: Culture is Data

CreativitySquared Jey Van-Sharp Transcript 

Jey Van-Sharp: I do believe that this is a good time to have ideas, and this is a good time to be creative because it’s gonna allow you to have a competitive advantage in how you use this thing because when you look at it, it’s really a two-dimensional square with a text box. Some people get excited there, some people do not get excited there.

It’s all about the questions and the problems that you wanna solve. 

Helen Todd: Welcome to Creativity Squared. I’m excited to share today’s conversation with you that’s with my dear friend, Jey Van-Sharp, who’s also known as the Prompt Papi, which you’ll learn more about. I’m just popping in to let you know that there are two versions of this conversation available.

This one that’s edited for our podcast listeners, and there’s also an extended video version. You can find the full length video interview on the episode’s dedicated page at creativitysquared.com and on the Creativity Squared YouTube channel. The links to these are in the podcast description, and while you’re on the website, be sure to sign up for our free weekly newsletter that explores the intersection of creativity and AI.

Enjoy the conversation with Jey. 

Theme: But have you ever thought, what if this is all just a dream?

Helen Todd: Welcome to Creativity Squared. Discover how creatives are collaborating with artificial intelligence in your inbox on YouTube and on your preferred podcast platform. Hi, I’m Helen Todd, your host, and I’m so excited to have you join the weekly conversations I’m having with amazing pioneers in this space.

The intention of these conversations is to ignite our collective imagination at the intersection of AI and creativity to envision a world where artists thrive.

Welcome to Creativity Squared. I am so excited today. We have Jey Van-Sharp. He’s one of my favorite humans on the planet. We go way back to our New York City days. We both are New Yorkers at heart. Jey is Venezuelan and raised in New York City. And goodness, we’ve done so many panels and collaborations over the years.

Looking back at old photos, I think our first one was in 2014 for Social Media Week on exploring deep creativity. So coming full circle, we’re on a podcast that explores how creativity intersects with technology. So couldn’t be more excited to have you on the podcast today.

Jey Van-Sharp: Thanks for having me. I’m super stoked to be here. And we are United Looking Forward, I’m one of the wolves and proud member of a community of entrepreneurs founded of forward-thinking people who use our energy to help make this world a better place. I’m also fascinated by the intersection of culture, creativity, community, and commerce.

And my company and my ideas sit in the center of that. We are an agent to, of helping people manifest and amplify their ideas. And my passion is to work with people’s ideas and companies to get the next level. But currently now with this innovation AI, I’m now being called /Prompt Papi.

So I’m, I’m considering shifting my name on IG. I’m very excited to speak to you today, Helen and Creativity Squared team. 

Helen Todd: And for those who do not know Jey, I wanna give a little bit more context of his amazing mind. And I always love having conversations and just seeing what he’s thinking and getting his pulse on everything.

So Jey is the co-founder of My Uber Life Consulting Group, which is a global consultancy I mentioned. He’s a Venezuelan kid, raised in New York City. One of his superpowers is really synthesizing data and culture, which we’ll get a lot more into on today’s show. And then My Uber Life specializes in providing innovative solutions to help geniuses, creators, celebrities, executives and companies navigate the complexities of modern business and achieve success in their endeavors.

And Jey also has two engineering degrees, which he didn’t put in his bio, but I always like to surface cuz he really, when I say that I love our conversations, I really do. And I’m so excited to be able to share what he’s thinking about today with everyone. So, with that, let’s, let’s dive in. 

In this moment, the day of the recording is March 17th, St Patrick’s Day. A little side comment. This is our second recording, so hopefully we’ll have the luck of the Irish with us today because the first recording was before South by Southwest. And I’m broadcasting from Cincinnati, Ohio, and there was a torrential downpour and horrible weather.

And in the middle of the podcast recording, I lost power and the internet and the irony of doing a podcast on technology and having the technology utterly fail was so funny. So this is our second interview. 

And now where we find ourselves is after South by Southwest, Chat GPT 4 is out. Google is releasing their new co-pilot tool, and the space is moving so fast, breakneck speed. And then also it’s not lost on me, you know, we’re also coming out of Covid, although we’re still kind of in Covid where the world like paused and we reevaluated everything. And instead of slowing down, grieving what’s happened, thinking about getting really clear how we wanna use this technology, we’re just jumping right into the next thing at full speed with this new technology that’s truly gonna transform the internet and our lives as we know it.

So, Jey, that’s a big setup, but we’re at a very interesting place in human history at the intersection of humans in this new tool. And I’d love to get your pulse on how you see this moment in the zeitgeist right now. 

Jey Van-Sharp: Well, I would just say this, bear with me a little bit here, right? Cause I’m, I have to connect some dots, but where I see the zeitgeist right now in terms of culture is that we are experiencing two things, right? We’re experiencing an epic amount of levels of optimism in terms of what the future can bring. And I think at the same time we’re experiencing, you know, extreme levels of skepticism and pessimism. I would say that, you know, clearly we just had three years of very, very interesting time, and we haven’t really had a conversation about it as a species, as a nation, as, you know, as a society, as a community because things are going so fast. 

But at the same time, here are these tools that we have now that can help us go faster, right? It’s helping us to, to, to have some kind of normalcy at that speed. And, and I’m talking about artificial intelligence, machine learning, you know generative learning, things of that nature.

I would say also what’s happening in the zeitgeist, I think people have decided to reevaluate what life is, right? You know, our company name is My Uber Life, right? So it’s like “my super life.” And I think really looking at it from a lens of like, what, what do you do with your time, right? For two years with Covid, we, we, time was distorted, you know, you know, time was really relative, right?

And how we treated that time and how it shifted a lot of the value systems that we have as a society. And that is both on a micro level and then of course on the global macrocosm level. So I think right now, from my experience, there’s so many different fractals of those two ways. I think ultimately human beings are always concerned with survival.

I think that’s, that thesis has kind of evolved for a lot of people where they’re thinking about quality of life, you know, family death, health, wellness, those things now that were looked upon as being not a part of the mainstream, not a part of productivity, not a part of creativity, are now kind of become singular in a sense, or, or approaching, you know, some type of singularity per se, right?

Where these different non-connected ideas are now being, are now being pushed against each other through technology, through information sharing, through the way we synthesize the information. And I would say also, how we interpret that as human beings really is the cultural aspect, right?

And the cultural aspect and how that, again, affects machine learning, right? Because the machines are learning from us and we’re learning from the machines. So this is you know, symbiosis happening that is very reflective of not only of our positive psyche, but also our dark psyche.

I would, I would probably say also having experiences with all the different web and internet and technological iterations, particularly coming out of Web 2, I think a lot of us are looking back and with a healthy dose of skepticism. And I’ll park it there. I’ll land the plane there cause I know we have a lot more questions.

But I would, you know, tee it up there and say, you know, it’s web, this web AI is, it’s not as blissful as I would say, you know, Twitter or, you know, or Hootsuite or, you know, something of that nature that, or Instagram in the beginnings where like, “wow, I can like, you know, edit an image.”

Now we’re probably thinking like, “hmm, you know, how does this affect, you know, our sense of normalcy. How does this sell, you know, intellectual property? How does this affect jobs?”

Helen Todd: I actually just started reading a book last night called “Creativity: the Psychology of Discovery and Invention” that someone recently recommended.

And one of the things that was that’s interesting in this kind of related to what you just said is that creativity, and I think you could also, you know, not interchange culture here, but doesn’t happen in, in people’s heads, but between a person’s thoughts and sociocultural context. Like you can’t just like, “oh, I have creative ideas.”

Like, it’s the culture has to like say, “yes, that is cool.” And since we are, this podcast is dedicated to the intersection of creativity and AI, I’d love to hear your thoughts or reaction to creativity and where that fits into how you think about data as culture.

Jey Van-Sharp: Yeah, I would like to reference historical, right? To know your roots, right? So one of the roots were Saatchi & Saatchi you know, I think was Kevin Roberts. He talked about creating lovemarks right, and creating love, and humans needing love, and seeking love and exchanging love and the things that we do for love. Even in consuming, right? So I just wanna put that as a, as a side prompt.

And this like, just to, to make available, to answer your question. And then the second part I wanna say is that create, what is creativity? It’s the ability, the ability to create, right? Women have an advantage, right? Because of just our biology. Or biological women have an advantage.

Emotional people have an advantage, right? Because they see past obstacles. People who have been through a lot of trauma and survived are creators. Moms are creators, dads are creators, entrepreneurs are creators, artists are creators, singers are creators. Rappers are creators. If you ever seen Kobe Bryant dribble a basketball or you know, Michael Jordan’s basketball, LeBron James, you know, basketball or Steph Curry basketball, that’s creativity, right?

Or El Niño with him and a soccer ball or, or Pelé with the soccer ball. That’s creativity, right? So I kind of want to give essence of what creativity is, so that, that we don’t like make it cliché, right? And kind of whitewash it. Greenwash it, you know, wash it with nonsense, right? Just like it’s taking a circumstance and manifesting it, something from your mind, and making that a reality is the real act of creativity, right? It’s something that’s not visible to the human senses at the moment. Who knows what happens? 

It’s Friday, and I just saw a tweet today from somebody on my team, and it’s, it gave all the headlines all, all, all the, highlights of what was dropped this week in technology from AI, and it said “Friday, who knows what’s gonna happen today.” So maybe today, maybe today we can figure out how to manage. 

Helen Todd: I think I retweeted that tweet. 

Jey Van-Sharp: You know what I’m saying? So I just, just saying creativity. So I think a big part of humanity is expression and creating out of their, the chaos, right?

Which is like the second law of thermodynamic, which is entropy. Like how do you create predictability in chaos? It’s like a human drive, right? Like, how do we stay alive? How do we stay safe? How do we, how do we store our nuts? How do we keep our tribe, our family, our communities, our gender, our race, our nation, our, our now our species, right?

How do we keep ourselves safe? So I think that’s the essence of creativity and how it manifests itself. In the modern times, that money became kind of an average of all those things, money became synonymous with safety. So people started using their ideas primarily on finding ways to make money while ignoring about ways to help human beings.

So I think that’s gonna be an interesting shift. What’s gonna happen now about who and what capital allocators and what ideas get funded, right? So now creativity and community and commerce plays together. And if you want to kind of extrapolate from there, you have to understand the underpinnings of that, which is culture, right?

And culture is a shared value system. It’s a shared expression. It’s a shared way to tell you things that I find valuable. And so now I might go find those valuable and now I might go get those things. So if you are a person selling things or sharing things, you know, turns out that’s where you wanna listen to.

As it comes to creativity now, I think now with AI, creators now have the best chance in, in that whole Atari to Web 4 kind of arc that I shared earlier on the podcast. I believe this is the first time in my team, we believe it’s the first time that creators have a competitive advantage against people who have very rigid mindsets, right?

People who are in Ivory Towers, big companies, people who are, who are fashioning themselves as being conservative about their ideas. All the things we tell ourselves, all kind of AKAs for risk management, right? People who are just like, “we don’t wanna mess up a good thing we’re winning here. Why mess it up with some weird innovation, right?” However, this is like water. This is like air, so it will run through your system. 

Now, creators now have never had a problem with ideas. Their problem was going to get capital and getting people to give a shit. You gotta, by the time you get to someone with capital, they’re giving you their complete biased, rigid point of view that they copied and pasted from their Harvard, Yale, wherever fund they’re at.

And their metric that they think is that they think it’s statistically safe, which clearly it’s not, because if it was safe, every single bet would’ve yielded a return on that bet, right? So like, clearly something is off with those models and something is missing there. So the fact that those people are so sure about their models is due for disruption, right?

Creators now do not necessarily need to, or less and less every day pitch a room of people with robes and decision-making power to get funding to have their ideas, you know, amplify or proliferate in the market, or be shared or be consumed, you know? Now these creators now can technically very, very soon, go on our platform like Equity Share, and take their idea or asset and get it fractionalized in crowdfund, right? So you can do that. 

We literally crowdfunded our affordable housing project from the internet. Okay? That actually happened. So that’s not hypothetical. I think creators also have the ability to now experiment rapidly, right? So the cost of failure has gone down almost to zero, right?

And the ability to like work with an assistant that doesn’t necessarily get tired or you have to pay. Cause basically AI is like $160,000 assistant if you’re in the art studio, right? AI is this thing that helps you do your thing better at this point. So I think creators now have ability to use this assistant, not a robot, not overlord, but assistant to help with rigor, make their idea more robust and maybe even come work with us and put it through our bay system, which is like our, one of our systems that we use to take ideas to kind of like make it more pragmatic, make it more, make, put a business plan and get it to market to help it work. You know, we have 17 years of experience of working with all types of companies doing that, right?

So now creators have, you know, access to things like myself, but they can also build their own process, which is like their own practice. Most of my art buddies who are blue chip artists and well known artists in the world who kind of my art work with them and now, like they’re, they’re these people who are like huge and we’re like, they’re like management or like their, like their advisory consultants, right?

Like they’re secret wizards in the back helping them make decisions. Now they have their AI, right? They have their own inclinations, right? They have now us Wolf, My Uber life, right? The moves. We can now work together now to be that more exponentially more impactful in our ideas. So we’re limiting the risk of the ideas.

So I think creativity now, having those systems so early on to assist the pen and paper or the business model canvas or you know, a SWOT analysis or you know, an abstract painting or a new song, or take my business plan and make it a rap song. It’s phenomenal how the alchemy of that, the morphing and the transformation of our ideas now, there’s no limitation on that. 

First is the limitation of dealing with those people that you may have to seek out their capital and their approval. These gatekeepers where you have to like use the, you know, the I and the E in the correct way, and they’ll judge that, over judge that versus like the sentiment of your business plan.

Or they might ignore that you have some kind of je ne sais quoi to make this thing work because of some kind of characteristic versus some kind of like pseudo-intellectual equation that it’s supposed to be the filter of a good idea and a bad idea. That goes away more and more every day. So creators now have a lot more independence to imagineer and to imagine themselves in a new kind of format, which changed the balance of how this works.

Granted, of course, if the cost of AI goes up and the cost of these things go up, that’s a different conversation. But as of today, right, as of this date, that’s a reality that was not real five months ago. Where you can go into Mid Journey and you can go into, you know, Stable Diffusions thing or DALL-E or you know, Dale. I can never pronounce it correctly, but

Helen Todd: I call it DALL-E. I don’t, I dunno either. 

Jey Van-Sharp: Of course, none of these things have customer service you could never ask. But point is to end it, Helen. The point is, I do believe that this is a good time to have ideas, and this is a good time to be creative because it’s gonna allow you to have a competitive advantage in how you use this thing.

Because when you look at it, it’s really a two-dimensional square with a text box. Some people get excited there, some people do not get excited there. It’s all about the questions and the problems that you want to solve. 

Now, if you’re a creative person and truly want to create solutions to make this world a better place, you can easily now go and experiment there, and get people excited around that. Create art around that. Create means around that, share around that. And you know, a decentralized social media is, you know, there’s a lot of those things happening. Decentralized platforms where Discord groups and things are happening off of the major platforms are happening in real time. 

So I feel like that’s creativity is fundamental to humanity. And it’s the fundamental aspect to economics that got zeroed out because of specialization and industrialization, that now that bag is opened back up. Like, where are the ideas? Let’s fund the ideas, let’s get behind the ideas and let’s get around the ideas that we know have the highest probability to be cool and affect the culture.

And if we do that, the economics will take care of itself. 

Helen Todd: Well, and one thing just to do a snapshot at the time of this recording where we’re sitting, so I loved that what you said of, you know, creativity is bringing ideas to life and these tools just give the accessibility to create into just so many more hands. And, you know, I think this is used a lot, you know, helps solve the blank page problem. 

But where we’re sitting right now is you can put text in, get text out, you can put text in, get images out. We’re very soon going to see text in and get video out where we’re, you know, anyone is gonna be able to create these multimedia things in the very near future.

So when we say like, you know, really manifesting creativity, like if you think of in specifically a digital space, we’re really gonna be able to think and have these things created. And when I say think, it even goes beyond text because we have, I think a research study in Japan literally put images in front of people, then ran MRI scans, had the person think about the images, and then the computer recreated those images.

Then you have companies like Neurolink, which is working on, human to neural, you know, machine interfaces where you’re gonna be able to think it’s gonna be the little iPhone on the back of your head as a platform for all these apps to be building on, where you’re literally going to go from thinking to creating, at least in a digital space.

Now and all this wild stuff that feels like we’re living in sci-fi is happening and being made right now. So I just wanted to kind of, you know, as the, the time capsule of where we’re sitting on the precipice of, you know, what, what’s to come and how transformative this 

Jey Van-Sharp: I mean, it’s, I think it’s quite spiritual. Whatever word you want to use to replace spiritual, I do feel like it, there, there’s a level of spirituality and empathy. That was the first iterations of the web we were, we were devoid of. 

I think now this is the world, the cultural element is right. I find like a lot of people analyzing culture, health and wellness is no longer tertiary right. Or secondary. It’s like I know people who quit their jobs, moved to other cities. Teams have been distributed and redistributed in other places. 

People have had babies, have had kids, they have concerns. People value their time more than they value money in certain places, right. And, I, one can argue that Covid was a spiritual awakening for a lot of people. For myself, absolutely. To have that much time to sit down to, to see all the things that I’ve done right, I’ve done wrong. To see a better version of myself, to see the shadow version of myself. I think a lot of human beings have had that time. 

We cannot look at these innovations in a vacuum and not, and get caught up in just the sci-fi and, and forget about the re the, the sci- reality, right.

The sci-fi and the sci-real, right? Like, because, like sci-fi is abstract and like, it’s either dystopian or utopian, but oftentimes in sci-reality, it’s oftentimes both, right? And it’s, and it’s unevenly distributed. And it’s unfair in a lot of its aspects, right? 

Of course. My Uber Life, and you know, being a company founded by multicultural kids and our Wolf network of professionals like yourself, you know, our job is to make sure that we ask the tough questions in the room, right?

Like, okay, “how does this help humanity? Tell me how this resource can be made available for free at scale for all the kids in the public school system in each of these jurisdictions. Because they need to be trained on this ASAP and not only need to be trained, we need to have funding and allocation of that because if you don’t, some other country’s doing that.” You know what I’m saying? So it’s like this is a new awakening that we need to have in America where it’s like people need to get smart very fast. 

We have a stat on our website that says something about 60% of the world’s on the internet, right? So it’s about approximately 40% of the internet, the world not on the internet.

With Starlink happening, with what Elon’s doing and a lot of other players in the world looking to provide free internet to the world, once those people have inputs now and they have prompt access, and this is me as an immigrant kid, you know, with the blessings of coming to and the luck of, and the good fortune of my dad bringing me to the United States of America and being raised in New York City, you know, I’m able to, to have empathy for all types of people, you know, of all variations.

And I can tell you one thing about immigrants, right? And people who are come from struggle, they have a motor, right? So those people coming from quote unquote third world countries know, as condescending as that is, can be very quickly competitive in a sense of like, what can they do with this technology?

So I think America, we have to get our shit together here as well. And that’s not gonna come from a bunch of cats in Silicon Valley speaking in a vacuum where the majority of the people look exactly the same. It’s gonna happen from the ground level and from the cultural level. And that really to me, starts with entertainment and education and that’s what our company’s doing, right? So anyone that’s interested in reaching out to us to collaborate on that, please do reach out. 

But I feel like it’s the job to also respect the spiritual part, the emotional part, the humanity part as well. That conversation needs to be treated. I didn’t go to South By this year and you and I haven’t had a real time to kind of download, but what I’m really interested in hearing is the ethics and the moral part of that.

Cuz it’s not clear to me, right? It’s not going to be some, “this is wrong, this is right.” It’s not that. I don’t also want to bring politics into something so early and that’s, and that’s innovating so quickly. I just want, to me, this is not an ethic or moral problem to me, this is a distribution problem.

The distribution will help solve the ethic and moral because now you’ll have more parity and, and people who have more access will have more input through culture and through the internet to, to shift what the public opinion, which I call the fourth branch of government, right? What, what do they think? And I know there’s a lot of opinions on that, but I think it has to get to maybe not even cynical adults as much as young people, right? 

And I mean, young people and creators of all ages, they need a sit down, right? Like, yo, here’s, here’s a month. And you gotta kind of look at your whole situation a little bit differently. And we’ve been doing that with some of our clients. I’m like, “listen guys, like I know this is not, we’re not a workshopy kind of thing. We don’t wanna do a retreat. We’re try not to waste time. No frills. It’s just straight to like, you know, our attitude is “we united looking forward, let’s, let’s, let’s help make the world a better place and let’s use everything in the fridge, right? Let’s not complain. Let’s use all the [00:30:00] ingredients to make soup to feed the house.”

Like it’s this very old school kind of immigrant mentality to our organization, how we treat our clients, right? We’re like your family, let’s work. Right? And, and you know how we, you know, you, we work together for, for over a decade now. So you know that to be very consistent. But I would say speaking to a lot of people, it’s, I find it so interesting that my phone calls with them.

Cause I never really pitched these people. These are people who call me when they need me. I think it, I think it’s time for you to sit down. I think we need to have like a, we need to take a month out and, and do, you know, do a real retreat. You know, get your, and these are people who have, who have means.

I’ve also been doing it. Our company also does this pro bono. We do it through our educational pipe as well. I have to make honorable mention of that, of the work, the hard work that Winston and Qua are doing on my team, but also like, hey, all the CEOs, all the startup people, all the venture people, [00:31:00] all the movement people, people who are in the head of art practices, gatekeepers, gotta wake up because I’m not like anti-gatekeeper, I’m not anti-anything per se.

I’m just pro-human in a sense to like, okay, what gets us to the next level where there’s people now sleeping on the floor, where we have a little bit less anxiety when we wake up in the morning because we have some of our means met, and at least we’re getting honest direction about how we should go about our day.

Like if it’s the Hunger Games, let us know it’s the Hunger Games, right? Like if it’s gonna be some utopia, like don’t lie to us, where we completely ignore the elders in the room. 

So, I do think this information is gonna be transformative as AI is gonna be transformative. I do believe that we need to have a conversation about that to from a very diverse cultural dataset, which starts from a very, very cultural community of different people who are leaders and dreamers of parts of the world coming together and to experiment and to basically color, right?

This is like kindergarten all over again, right? How do we use crayons and these alphabets to pay our rent in the next 40, 50 years, right? We need to have these conversations as a society versus just getting it on, you know, here are the four or five things you can, like you can do with it. And then we’re like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

I get like, okay, like these, like these nice Steve Job kind of TW triad kind of conference announcements are cool, but how does that affect my business, particularly coming out of Covid, inflation, and how does this help the nation? And how does this reinvigorate an entire working class of people who are already skeptical and pessimistic because they were not participants in the wealth transfer of Web 1, Web 2, and Web 3?

Why would they get behind in Web 4 and what is Web 4 without people, right? What is that? That is a spiral down to a really bad space. So I think we have to think those who build companies and who build context through our mediums – art, entrepreneurship, and all forms of creative expression, to be honest.

Where we’re looking to make a livelihood or are looking to survive and thrive. I do believe, Helen, that we, we, we have to sit down and take that process more frequent than we do at South By Southwest once a year. Right? And that means that we might have to have a lot of breakout sessions all year, all the time to update and to advance our systems and really hold each other accountable and say, “Hey, how are you using this tool to reach back, while we reach forward?”

You know what I’m saying? 

Helen Todd: It made me think of universal creative income, you know, if just have our living needs met so that we can be creative with these tools. One thing I wanted to make sure that we covered in today’s conversation, and I just made up the universal creative income

Jey Van-Sharp: Universal basic income. Universal basic income. I like it. Universal creative income. It’s good. That’s really good. 

Helen Todd: Let us all be creators. 

Jey Van-Sharp: Yeah. 

Helen Todd: One thing I wanted to, cuz I do think that we all are creators. And that, that’s you know, and I think one thing that’s interesting is that when we say to be creative is to be human, is that all these tools and technology is like really holding up a mirror and asking these existential questions.

If a machine can take two unrelated ideas and bring it together, in a lot of ways, that’s what creativity is. Is creativity human – inherently human? 

Jey Van-Sharp: Mm-hmm. 

Helen Todd: So that’s, that’s why I love, you know, this moment in time is really begging us to ask a lot of these…

Jey Van-Sharp: Mm-hmm. 

Helen Todd: …existential questions. But one thing I definitely wanted to cover on today’s, in today’s conversation is something that we discussed before as, prompts are the new IP

Jey Van-Sharp: Mm-hmm. 

Helen Todd: And, well, first of all, do you have any favorite prompts that you’ve used, Jey, that you’re 

Jey Van-Sharp: Oh 

Helen Todd: willing to share? Or, or how do you think about prompts? Cause we’re

Jey Van-Sharp: Oh, I’ll tell you what 

Helen Todd: 2023 is definitely the year of prompts. 

Jey Van-Sharp: My team has been calling me the Prompt Papi, or the Prompt Lord. I get very excited about my discovery, so being Prompt Papi, I do have to, you know 

Helen Todd: I love it. 

Jey Van-Sharp: Hopefully, I’ll do a good job here of demonstrating that. Right. I am the Prompt Papi. But on a serious note, I think one of the best things to do, particularly being someone like myself, who’s, who always felt insecure being long-winded and having very, very, like, like chain of thoughts, right? Like, this equals that, equals this, equals that.  

Helen Todd: This is what I love about you, Jey. 

Jey Van-Sharp: Well, thank you. 

Helen Todd: I just ask a question and you go and go. 

Jey Van-Sharp: Thank you, thank you 

Helen Todd: You make my interview so easy. 

Jey Van-Sharp: Thank you, thank you, I mean, listen, I, you know, I only, I always speak it from like, from my heart as you know, you know, I try not to like really go beyond that, you know, I’m still a Venezuelan kid trying to figure it out and try to help my community and my clients figure it out, right? And I figured some shit out, you know, and here we are. 

So, I think a big part of it is the teaching element. Finding out culturally how someone receives information the best is a huge part of our process. Now that I can take any information and tell it to tell it me it back in a context that is enjoyable to the subject or the person I’m trying to the student per se without, without the condescension of patriarchy kind of stuff. 

Like to my student to get ’em to be excited. So, so they’re no longer a student. Now they’re a participant. That’s the whole, the whole essence of our organization at Wolf is like, we don’t want students, we want everyone to be a co-collaborator or co-consultant, a part of the group, right? A co-builder. 

So for example, I, let me actually go to it. This is probably a good way to, let’s 

Helen Todd: Let’s, yes let’s go. 

Jey Van-Sharp: Let’s see what Prompt Papi has up his prompt sleeve

Helen Todd: Yes, I love it. I love it. 

Jey Van-Sharp: So, let’s go. It’s all fun, right? So something called Adinkra  Codes. I’ll fill you in. Adinkra codes are a type of computer code used to create software applications.

Right. They are written in the Adinkra program language, which is open source programming language designed for use on the web and the mobile. And Adinkra codes are used to create interactive application games and websites. Additionally, they’re used to build machine learning models and data analysis tools.

No one knows what the hell that means, right? Probably. So I’m gonna ask it, tell me what Adinkra codes are, but tell me in a Disney narrative

Helen Todd: I love it. 

Jey Van-Sharp: Prompt Papi, Okay, here we go. 

So, once upon a time, in a far away land lived a, hold on one second. Let me… lived a tribe of wise people known as the Dogon. These are Dogon tribe. It’s this tribe in Africa who are technologically as advanced as ancient Egyptians, right?

These are people who use their symbols and codes to actually communicate. This is binary. This is deep computer language, all the way into Africa, right? They were known for their knowledge of the universe and the ability to communicate stories and wisdom through a special type of code. This code was known as the Andikra Codes, and it was believed to contain the secrets of the universe. The Dogon used Andikra to communicate stories, solve problems, express feelings.

Today the Andikra codes are used in in the computer programming to create interactive applications. They can be used to build machine learning models, data analysis tools with the help of these codes, right? 

So I’m gonna ask you another question. What’s your favorite Disney story? We all have one. 

Helen Todd: Oh goodness. My favorite, the first one that came to mind is “Beauty and the Beast.”

Jey Van-Sharp: In a “Beauty,” So tell me all of this, and I’m using the word “this” to show how vague you can be. Tell me all of this in the “Beauty and the Beast”

Helen Todd: Well, and, and one thing to, as you’re typing that to share for those who haven’t played with Chat GPT, one, we encourage you to do so and ask questions and experiment with it.

But it remembers what you type. So you don’t have to, every time you go to a Google search, you’re kind of starting over. If you can’t find what you’re looking for, you’re, you might tweak what you’re asking Google, but whereas, these chatbots remember the context of the conversation that you’re having.

Jey Van-Sharp: Mm-hmm. 

Helen Todd: So you can say, you know, like what Jey just said, you know, say this and expand or whatever. It really does in some ways, it’s kind of like the movie “Her,” where it feels like you’re almost having a human conversation to a certain extent. So, yeah, just as, I wouldn’t [unintelligible] 

Jey Van-Sharp: No, no, this is

Helen Todd: For those who haven’t played around with it yet

Jey Van-Sharp: You’re giving me time to set up my prompt. Right, Prompt Papi here. The Prompt Lord, okay. 

So tell me, in the Disney tell, so tell me, in Disney, in the “Beauty and the Beast” movie, right? Just, just tell to me, like, how, tell me the following, right? This is for everyone there. Tell me the following, and I’m putting my dense text that I read for you guys about the Andikra codes, right?

And so I’m telling it to tell me the following, right? So I said, the Andikra codes are a type of computer code using computer software, right? So I’m saying, tell me the following, and this is word for word. Tell me the following, in the Beauty and Beast and the Beast Movie narrative. It’s colon. Okay. 

Helen Todd: Drum roll.

Jey Van-Sharp: Drum roll. Let’s see what the, what the machine says right. So, boom. 

Once upon a time, in a far, far away kingdom lived a beautiful woman named Belle and a beast who was cursed by an enchantress or encantress, right. As Belle and the Beast became closer, the beast revealed to her the secret of the Andikra codes. 

Helen Todd: Wow

Jey Van-Sharp: He told her that codes contained the wisdom and knowledge of the universe and that they could be used to generate interactive application games and websites as well as building machines.

Belle was fascinated with the Andikra codes and decided to use them to help them to break the belle’s, the Beast’s curse. With the help of the Andikra codes, the Belle was able to create the tool needed to help the Beast regain human form. In the end, the love and the power of the Andikra codes were able to break the spell. The Beast was turned, was able to turn back into a handsome prince.

So, of course I can get more descriptive with that. I can lend that. And that was all, you know, we, we probably messed that up a little bit. But the point is that I can take an idea that’s so dense and now walk someone into that. Now if I go further, I can also illustrate that, right? So the deeper codes are basic, these codes that affect the universe that we’re starting to uncover.

It’s like this like meta, meta code that impacts our human code. Now, it’s a abstract mathematical concept that if you’re deep down the rabbit hole with this kind of stuff, you’re probably know what I’m talking about. And if you’re, and now ironically, if you’re someone that knows cultural anthropology and history of the world, particularly the history outside teach, what they taught us in American schools, the Dogon tribe is quite fascinating.

That’s the D O G O N tribe. They’re quite fascinating. But they look at the world from a world where you had these prompts. That and these prompts that the universe gave is, is given through the Andikra codes. And the Andikra codes govern our reality, right? So it’s this kind of meta abstract thing. They told it to us in a Disney way.

This thing was a way for her to find the secrets of life to help break the Prince’s spell. So it’s the same thing that we can look at to break, to look at the secrets of our life, to learn something to help break some of the spells in our life. 

Helen Todd: Two thoughts are, come to mind with this. Well, three, I should say.

This is way cooler than the rose in the movie and, and in the storyline of how Belle helps the Beast, And the other two thoughts are one, and this is something that you and I have discussed before, is in order to get the most out of AI, you still have to have an expertise to know what to ask it.

Like, and that’s when you say, prompts our IP, you have to have a cultural understanding or whatever your expertise is to do it. And especially with the hallucinations, like, I actually saw my cousin’s wife who’s a midwife, and I was giving her a demo last week in Texas. And it, we were just kind of asking that some midwife, what is it? SOP – standards of procedures, which they apparently don’t use that word in the medical world, and it, and she could evaluate and be like, oh my God, this is really good. Me not having any expertise in that world. It looks smart to me, but I don’t have the expertise. 

So I think that’s one thing with all the potential to tap into is that there’s still an expertise that has to come with how to prompt and to know as you’re, what questions to ask.

But I think the other interesting thing about the demo, which thank you so much for, for doing with us, is also it opens up this possibility of anyone being able to learn in the container or story that makes sense to them, that learning or even consuming content isn’t going to be linear. It will be personalized and customized to you.

And I think that, that’s really exciting. If you learn through Disney stories these hard concepts, that’s possible. If you learn through poetry or what, whatever. 

Jey Van-Sharp: Imagine that. 

Helen Todd: Yeah. 

Jey Van-Sharp: Imagine having a child who loves “Little Mermaid,” right? And now you teach everything within that context. Math, science, geology, geography, economics.

Until they get bored with that, right? But now they can visualize what it means within the universe that they understand in theirselves, right? The Andikra codes are very abstract stuff, right? That’s stuff that’s probably not gonna be interesting to most people. But if I tell it to you in a Disney story that how the Beauty and the Beast and how she used that to help break the spell cuz it had all the codes of the universe of the Beast and turn the Beast back into a prince, that’s a new Disney story and now you know what the Andikra codes are. 

And the story now keeps it, it keeps evolving. I think, also, what is prompting? I think prompting is, you know, we came from an error in Web 1 and Web 2 where content was, you know, was king. But our addition is that context is queen.

Helen Todd: Mm-hmm. 

Jey Van-Sharp: And to run any good

Helen Todd I like that. 

Jey Van-Sharp: And to run any sovereign community or kingdom. Or queendom. Or please, I’m not into hierarchies, you know, but, for the cultural understanding using the language that’s human: Kingdom, queendom, right? So content, context. Prompting is, is providing the AI, the context that you are going to be asking it to help you with.

So before you start asking questions, you need to give it context, and that’s when you tell it to, to behave in a certain way or you will be behaving in a certain way. 

And it turns out people who are well-read, people who, who know a lot of different types of communities, people who have high levels of emotional intelligence, high levels of empathy, high levels of creativity, very self-aware people can now have a lot of narrative and a lot of IP in their minds that they can use now to, to work with the machine with.

And I would say that the prompt analysis is not enough. The prompt also works with the ping. Right. So the ping to me is where you get these a-ha moments. These, like, ah, eureka moments. Some people call it like divine inclinations or spiritual awakenings or you know, the creative imagination or you know, the synthetic imagination revealing itself.

Or some people call it emergence, right? Whatever those things happen in our mind where it’s like, that’s it. That’s the ping, right? You get the ping. Now you’re like, okay, now what do I do with this ping? Well, I have to uncover what this ping is, what it means, shape it. So now I prompt, before I start prompting, I set the context: Hey, I just got a ping that I want to clean the waters of the world.

Okay. Cool. Everyone. That’s not a bad idea. Usually historically that would end with a Google search and, oh wow, okay, that sucks. Now you can say, well, “Hi. Act like a marine biologist with 50 years experience. Act like a structural engineer and act like a physicist, but also act like Greta, the young lady’s name, who you know.

You can tell it that. And now you set the context and then you say, “all right, build me a, build me a water filtration system, but give me three versions of it and give me instructions how to do that.” 

Boom. Now, of course, you’re gonna get a lot of probably dense ideas. Maybe you don’t understand that. Well, tell me that in a way that I can understand it. Tell me that in Disney, right. And now I’m reading it in Disney. So now when I read it back, it’s a little bit more intelligently, schematically, engineering kind of vibes.

You go back to those, okay, what they’re saying here is really that. So now your brain is able tto, now you’re speaking two languages. Like most of us who speak multiple languages, were kind of already designed for this kind of like code switching. So a lot of people in the black and brown communities, women, people who had to, like young people, people had to, like switch their accents, switch the way they speak, switch their language, understand what I mean, that you know, you can say love.

I have 90 words for love based upon the languages that I speak. And all those love nuances are different, right? The computer now may just say, give me a word for this, and they might give you love. You might say, well, no. I want you to be a master of Spanish, Portuguese, French, Dutch, English, this American English, British English.

Then now tell me words for love. You see what I’m saying? So you now, you’re providing the context for it to give you a more nuanced answer, to give you a little bit more diversity in the answer versus like the normalcy that you have a short attention span. There’s always a trigger with time, there’s always a collapse of time.

So you never really get into understanding, but you in your own time with this machine can, can help yourself learn better versus dealing with a cranky professor or a con or an impatient parent or, or a parent who’s just busy, you know, or a friend who may not understand, or a textbook that’s this dense that now I can take into a pdf, take that pdf, throw it in the machine and it tell it, you know, being the Prompt Papi, like, well gimme this in bullet points. Give me back in bullet points. I think it’s a fantastic kind of experience to be quite honest. 

Helen Todd: One, one quote that I’ve been thinking a lot about, since you know, Chat GPT, specifically, I default to Chat GPT, just cuz I’ve personally played with it the most, is from Michelangelo of, “I saw the angel in the marble and set it free” where like we can literally ask these tools anything to a certain extent because it’s for those who don’t know, it’s just a snapshot of the web up until 2021 at least Chat GPT. So it’s almost all of, you know, human knowledge that’s scrapable online that we’re pulling this from.

But we have all of that at the access of our fingers and whatever we can ask or imagine and can pull out of it and set whatever our creative angels that we want to free from this tool.

But two last questions. Although I know I think we could probably talk about this all day. What, what does this mean for popular culture?

Like if we’re all having these individualized learning, entertainment, like the, we’re not too far from the future of, you know, maybe, asking it like, I’m in the mood for this type of story tonight, or even maybe a world event. You know, tell it to me instead of, I don’t know, say the CNN or GQ or Vogue version.

Like, you have your own, like, tell it to me through this filter cuz this is how I wanna hear the news. Like, and, and even how you described earlier, all the different fractions and microcultures, you know, that are combining, what does this mean for popular culture and experiencing stuff across the board at those water cooler talks, “Hey, did you hear about this?” You know, what does this mean for all of those, those types of water cooler talks?

Jey Van-Sharp: I mean, that, that’s the trillion dollar question. You know, I, when this landed, I was in the mountains of Colombia when this landed, right? When I got, when I got like, pick up the phone.

And I think I spoke to you and a couple of other people and I was like, okay, let me use this right away. So I started using it right away and I also, I also recognized that, whoa, I have something in my, on my hand, I don’t know where this is gonna go. Like, so let me be careful about who I talk about it with.

I felt very like, what is this shit, really? So I was very excited when the same time trying to be an adult, you know, like about my emotions. Lemme, lemme be smart, but I can say short answer, I don’t know completely. Mid to long term. You know, it’s probably easier to predict long term versus short to midterm. 

Long term for sure, I think the people who are gonna be most motivated to use these tools are the people who have, terms of Maslow hierarchy needs or people who have more, more need to survive. Right? So they’ll use any tool to be able to express much like hip hop, jazz, you know, all the art movements used all the technologies that emerged over the last, you know, arc of our history, particularly modern history, the last hundred years. I think people are going to use it in very fascinating ways.

The musicians are already doing things. The poets already doing things. I know people are already using it to, to have their grandfather who passed tell em stories, you know, so like you’re gonna have that kind of emergence in culture. So I think the people who use music and the people who, who are entertainers and artists will use it first and they will, they will instruct us first on how this will become popular.

Cause they always do that, right? I’m to be quite honest, I’m fascinated to see what the porn community uses it, what they’re gonna do with that. Because, you know, that whole the industry of sex, a big part of how we’ve gotten here as a species, like the, no-no word, right? They also have been a major proliferation of technology, particularly streaming. So I’m looking at what they’re gonna, how they’re gonna use that, and think about how some of the major players, like the Only Fans and how they’re gonna interpret that. 

What it means to popular culture is that it’s probably gonna have its impact in two ways. One, where does it save me the most time?

And two, where does it provide me the context where I’m more valuable to my community, both locally and the overall market. I think from the short to the midterm in terms of businesses, right? Midterm to me is always like the business part. Like what, what would be the bet? I would say consumer facing goods.

Knowledge workers and creators right now. People who create stories and storytellers should probably start getting their hands in there. People who make movies, short films, filmmakers who probably have the time of their life right now. I think people who make art will finally have a way to iterate very quickly.

I think people who are, who provide strategy and guidance and advice and synthesis and paths are going to have a good time, right? I think knowledge work, I don’t know what the brand name is going to be, but it won’t be knowledge work, but it’ll be people who use words to help organize human thoughts and human energies, and organize communities to look in one direction, to be productive, to be able to amplify an idea, create an idea, or, you know, take something further, will probably have something there.

How that will affect popular culture? I think economically the working class will probably have to be retrained. 

Helen Todd: You know, I’m gonna disagree with you right there respectfully. 

Jey Van-Sharp: Okay. 

Helen Todd: Just because right now I think a lot of people were wrong in that, the creative and the white collar jobs were more secure.

We’re actually, in some ways more easy to replace, where the robots haven’t quite figured out how to fix a toilet. And a lot of this stuff with that’s hands, now assisted computing will help them and, you know, in terms of being able to amplify their jobs. But in terms of, in the short term, job replacement, it, it’s more, unless you know, you embrace the, the tools and, and whatnot to amplify what you’re doing

I mean, like the industrialization of content. You know, these tools are gonna do instead of, you know, a copywriter having to write, you know, a hundred different versions of an ad or the image in 20 different colors to A/B test, that type of stuff. Now these tools can do, removing the human from that.

Jey Van-Sharp: Yeah. 

Helen Todd: And in some ways those are the grunt work things that creatives aren’t getting excited about, but it does help pay the bills too, you know.

Jey Van-Sharp: I think that’s a short-term problem, to be quite honest. I think after that short-term reality happens, the midterm reality will be, the jobs will have to be retrained.

And I don’t know what the acceleration time will that be, if that’s gonna be 10 years, 30 years or two years. I don’t know what that arc is, but I agree. I actually do agree with you. In the short term, a lot of people will be replaced. So I would say it’s like, look at yourself, not from an aspect of you being, don’t define your, don’t have your ego define you as a human and your productivity based upon what you do. 

I think it’s probably a good time to figure out why you do things and what actually is in your heart, and what things actually create flow and when you lose time and space, and really figure out how that works with this new way.

I’m a little older now where I’m not gonna waste my time thinking about what’s wrong with this thing. I’m gonna think about how can we keep things safe and people more productive, particularly people in my communities and, you know, my heritage all the way out to the people like, you know, like ourselves, who build things and guide people to build things.

I think in the job market, in the sh- in the midterm, we were due for retraining anyway in America, right

Helen Todd: For a lot of redoing things. 

Jey Van-Sharp: Yeah. 

Helen Todd: Like education, jobs, a lot, a lot of things.  

Jey Van-Sharp: People are not gonna probably wanna go to classes, so how do you get someone really quick, you know, like throw a VHS in the back of a classroom in a VCR to get the class edified will probably be the level of where this is probably gonna happen. 

In terms of retrainment, I don’t think it’s gonna be like people lining up like “Gattaca” into an office and you’re moving. I’m just saying like, Hey guys, you might want to think about these new jobs. 

In terms of popular culture, I think the government what might have to set up places in America where they, where you can come in and say these jobs are available and then train the people up.

Much like they did with the New Deal a hundred years ago. And get people trained up for these new paths. I think that’s gonna probably happen to the mid to long term if this keeps going that way. Once we get past the new cycle of, holy shit, wow, this is amazing. What, like, okay, what does it mean for the job? Like, how does this put money in my pocket? 

So I think that’s gonna, that’s gonna be a time where a lot of consultants who, who actually been building things would probably be, will probably be needed at the same time. 

Government, I think it’s gonna be a time where a lot of us that were deployed to be against each other, will have to sit down to really think about what the upgrade of American life looks like from a 21st century aspect.

Of course, my focus was on 21st century business but because we’re pipelined into culture, my focus is also into what’s happening culturally. So I think culturally, the places, environments, just to recap, that will probably have the, you’ll see the biggest visible change are the places that are outside of comfort – economic comfort, social comfort. They will be the most motivated. And history has shown that. 

Hip hop is a great example and the many, many, many, many aspects of youth culture and global culture. I think midterm, of course, the job stuff, we just iterate that. I think it’s, how can you not think about that? Like, I don’t know what else would you think about in the midterm?

 Of course, in the midterm, there’ll be other tools to make this process probably all the tools that will be needed to probably make the singularity where you and the computer is no longer separate is probably gonna happen in the midterm. I just don’t know where the time mark is.

So short term now is that there’s gonna be a lot of uncertainty, and I think if there’s a lot, when there’s a lot of uncertainty, it’s probably a good time to go in and not out. We start with something called the why. You know, and the why is not what you do is why you do it, which is like your spiritual emotional inclination.

And I think we talked about this before on some of our workshops and panels and corporate retreats like, you know, and stuff like South by Southwest about, about creativity and like, how it ties into your why and your existence. And if we were told for the last hundred years to sacrifice that for the stability of a job and a 401K and an exit plan, but since that’s no longer certain, then you, and it’s going to be uncertain, you might as well look for certainty from within as you build out. 

So I think it’s probably a good time to understand your vocation or your job or your thing, particularly parents and educators looking at young people should really take a hard look and see where the inclinations of your student body or people are going and use these tools to help them help themselves kind of say.

So I think this is, this is probably where we are in the midterm, is a reformatting of American life.

Helen Todd: And I would be remiss if I didn’t ask you last two questions related. Have you asked, Chat GPT to be Walt Disney and had like, pretended to have a conversation and two, what do you think Walt Disney would think about these tools?

Cuz if you guys don’t know, I’m outing Jey as a Disney Imagineering student and fan. He referenced a few different Disney things. But I’m curious cause I’ve been kind of playing with some people that I really like who are no longer here or, and even here of, like, having conversations of like asking Chat GPT to pretend to be this person to interact. So I’m curious

Jey Van-Sharp: I did 

Helen Todd: If you’ve done that yet. 

Jey Van-Sharp: I mean, what we did was I Chat GPT to be Walt Disney. We gave it a bunch of imagineering books. Um, we fine tuned it against that knowledge base and asked it to rate our business model. And our entire process. And as a result of that, we upgraded our entire business model.

So, like I talk to Walt a lot, to be quite honest, and like, honestly, you know, one of my, one of my friends and, and partners talk about Walt Disney a lot bad and good. Ironically, my girl is at Walt at Disney World today, you know, and it was, it was the Shangri-La for me being an immigrant kid. One day I would be able to go to Disney, you know, and, you know, eventually I did.

But, from an imaginary standpoint, his whole concept was about taking an idea from concept and manifesting it. So for me, our whole thing about being a wolf about your dream was like taking a step further than Martin Luther King, which is like, I have a dream. Like, okay, Martin had a dream. Let’s be wolves about this dream.

In other words, let’s be community oriented. Let’s look forward and let’s come together as a population of people, all colors and creeds, sizes, all different points of views. To look forward and create something. So my whole thing is about manifesting dreams. So clearly Walt had a track record, he has the history and it’s still running.

You know, say what you have to say about it. It’s still iterating on itself. So I used some of that classical stuff, and I was very fascinated to see how I asked it to rate my business model and what it said. And I asked it to, like, what would, what would you, how would you say this better? And how would you find ways to create revenue?

What things you think should be removed? What things you think are redundant? And it took us about 16 hours to edit something that I’ve been working on for 17 years. 

Helen Todd: Wow. amazing. 

Jey Van-Sharp: And that will tell you everything about the power of this tool and how it will redefine the economics around time and how we use it.

So I think I want to introduce three things as we end here is time does not equal money. Time is more expensive than money, and timing is more expensive than time and timing can only come from one understanding their own sense of being with their own creativity and how to deploy it and use it to manifest their ideas.

Being that ideas is an idea, at least in the short to midterm that you can see will help benefit and solve a problem. Not being idealistic around it, you should always benchmark and upgrade your ideas because there are always these externalities that can be negative and have negative consequences.

But yeah, that’s, that’s it. Full circle there. 

Helen Todd: I actually misheard you the first time you said timing. I heard time meaning, and I actually thought that was really beautiful of like the meaning of how we spend our time and how we define time. So I think that’s a beautiful way to end today’s conversation.

Thank you so much for spending so much time today. I know I have thoroughly enjoyed it, and I hope everyone who is joining does too. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, to our Papi Prompt, or what is it? Prompt Pompty?

Jey Van-Sharp: I’m still honestly between the Prompt Papi. Or the Prompt Lord.

Helen Todd: I like Papi. Prompt Papi.

Jey Van-Sharp: But I think everyone has their, I wanted to say, I want to tell people not to be overwhelmed.

You know, there’s a lot of fuzziness with this process and a lot of uncertainty with this process. Lean into that. There’s a lot of things you can uncover and discover there that not even some of the people design the tools actually know. So lean into your creativity. But thank you for having me, Helen.

Helen Todd: Thank you for spending some time with us today. We’re just getting started and would love your support. Subscribe to Creativity Squared on your preferred podcast platform and leave a review. It really helps and I’d love to hear your feedback. What topics are you thinking about and want to dive into more?

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And a big, big thank you to everyone who’s offered their time, energy, and encouragement and support so far. I really appreciate it from the bottom of my heart. 

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