[00:00:00] King Wilonius: You got this. You got this, man. Like, honestly, like, you know, this year has been such [an] amazing year. And I feel like the success that I’ve had, I feel like everybody can have that, you know? You just believe or know that you can have it. But yeah, I tell people all the time, like, that’s been my thing.

[00:00:19] King Wilonius: I’m like, you got this, like, just believe and work from that point of like your belief, you know what I’m saying? Just put yourself in that space, and then just do the damn thing and things just kind of, life’s like water. It just, it moves out the way and it does what it needs to do.

[00:00:43] Helen: Welcome to Creativity Squared, discover how creatives are collaborating with artificial intelligence in your inbox on YouTube and on your preferred podcast platform. Hi, I’m Helen Todd, your host, and I’m so excited to have you join the weekly conversations I’m having with amazing pioneers in the space.

[00:01:02] Helen: The intention of these conversations is to ignite our collective imagination at the intersection of AI and creativity to envision a world where artists thrive.

[00:01:20] Helen: Well, hello, Creativity Squared is in Miami during Art Basel and I’m so excited ’cause we’re at the FilmGate interactive immersive festival for its 11th edition. It’s one of the top immersive festivals in the entire world. And we have the executive director with us today, Diliana Alexander. So congratulations on an amazing festival and I’d love for you to share with our audience what makes, FilmGate in this festival so special.

[00:01:47] Diliana: Of course. Thank you so much, and thank you for having me on the podcast. I have now become a big fan. So, what makes it special for us is first, that we introduce immersive and interactive projects to the Miami audience and the audience at large since it happens during Miami art week; Art Basel.

[00:02:04] Diliana: Also that we bring the top talent in immersive spaces, the most interesting and exciting technologies of the year that have been accumulated into the projects and also government agencies and funds that are interested in supporting them with our goal being that projects are funded here, but also they meet each other and then maybe new collaborations [are] formed and every single person that comes to the festival is so exciting. You learn from them and get inspired. So for us, this is really, really special.

[00:02:37] Helen: I’ve seen the collaborations happening in real time and it’s so exciting and I love – it’s It’s an intimate space. So you really can make connections and see people.

[00:02:47] Helen: So it is very special if you can make it next year. And of course, as you guys know, I interviewed Will and next year he’ll be debuting the full version of BBL Drizzy. But walk us through what all is encompassed in the festival because it’s five days and you do a lot. So tell us about the festival experience here in Miami.

[00:03:05] Diliana: First, we always start – now that we’re in our 11th edition, we figured we’d experiment, but we also have certain things that are tradition. So we always start our opening night at the Frost Science Museum Planetarium. They’re an incredible partner. They have allowed us to bring artistic projects into a science space, which is super, super cool.

[00:03:25] Diliana: And we program dome experiences and planetarium experiences from around the world, but also this year we did a teaser of King Wilonius’ BBL Drizzy musical dome experience, knowing that this is going to be the first artistic Miami dome experience and FilmGate is behind it too. So we will be supporting it with resources; a variety of resources and funding.

[00:03:51] Diliana: And then we always finish in a very Miami style. So our award ceremony happens on a sunset cruise. So it’s incredible to have everybody happy to have accomplished what they wanted to do, presented their projects, and then they’re kind of a trapped on the boat for four hours since I met those friendships.

[00:04:09] Diliana: So yes, it’s a very intimate experience, but quality over quantity and everybody becomes fast friends.

[00:04:17] Helen: I love it. I missed the memo on the scheduling cause this happened kind of fast. But next year I will be on that cruise for sure. And okay, so tell us, you’ve got the planetarium, the market, what are the actual activities around Miami too, that you guys have here?

[00:04:34] Diliana: Absolutely. This year, we limited the amount of experiences. So we focused on 10 complete immersive experiences. Wanted more people to see them and we want it to be really highly selective. So some of the projects are premier, and then some of the projects are actually winners of South by Southwest. So Venice.

[00:04:51] Diliana: So these are, as a head curator, these are the top, my favorite projects that are brought here. And it’s, this year is also really exciting because I think 80 percent of the projects are female driven. So by female directors, I didn’t mean it to be that way, but maybe it’s because of our theme of rewilding and reconnecting the human spirit back to nature. I love that women are creating in that space.

[00:05:11] Diliana: We also, for the first year ever, we are launching North America’s first market. It’s actually happening right now. Immersive market. So 15 projects from around the world, pitching at the market, to funds, to collaborators, to cultural institutions, especially Miami ones, hoping that these projects we will, at some point support to have them in their full experience here, but anywhere else in the world.

[00:05:39] Diliana: And then we, for the first time ever also launched an AI experiment with, seven artists. And, we, created a public installation that’s happening in this building. So it’s outside.

[00:05:54] Diliana: It’s an LED screen that wraps the building. So everybody in Miami can actually experience it. We want more public art and more public immersive art. It’s really difficult. It’s very expensive. So we actually got to play on this amazing building, and that was really thoughtful of the Paramount and the Miami world center to let us do that.

[00:06:11] Helen: I’ve been really impressed, with really everything, the content, the people, the talent and the artworks. And another thing is how conscientious you are of involving the first peoples and the content and making sure not only their perspective, but we’re seeing their art and their narrative and even push back on the theme itself.

[00:06:35] Helen: So can you tell us a little bit about how you came to the theme and the intentionality behind the people in the room too?

[00:06:41] Diliana: And I, I thought that was fantastic that our keynote speaker, William Osceola, who was representing the Miccosukee tribe of Indians, and he is an elected officials for them, pushed back on the theme of rewilding saying, “well, that could be problematic because (etc.),” and these are the kind of conversations that we want to encourage.

[00:07:00] Diliana: And I think that’s what a curator really wants, is to place a theme and to create conversations around that and not just praise around them, but really meaningful and deep conversations. We started working with the Canadian government and then also our local partners, the Miccosukees, and filmmakers that we work [with] in the Miccosukee tribe of Indians, because we wanted to bring, first people creators, so indigenous first nations first people, including also Inuit, to bring them to Miami and to introduce them to creators from the tribes here.

[00:07:33] Diliana: We want to be just empowerers. [We’ll] probably mess up. We definitely don’t want it to be a tokenization, but we do hope that creative projects emerge and that more of these conversations and a point of view is being brought to the festival and to different creators.

[00:07:50] Helen: Well, I know I learned a lot and I really appreciate that programming. So tell us, how did you get connected with Will, or King Willonius, how did that come to be? Because he talks about a lot of the interview was about manifesting. So how did this happen where he ended up at the festival in a dream space of doing a planetarium work? So can you share that story with us?

[00:08:14] Diliana: Of course. So Will is kind of like an ideal creator. This is what we want to do with a lot of the traditional filmmakers actually in South Florida, we represent them as an organization. So South Florida is very much focused on traditional film. Well, we call it ‘flatties and immersive.’

[00:08:32] Diliana: But Will started as a traditional filmmaker and he’s also a comedian. And then he dove into technology, especially during the pandemic and started playing with AI. So we. I’ve been watching him as a FilmGate member go from making a short film, a pilot for a TV show, and now creating immersive experiences and blowing up.

[00:08:52] Diliana: So, we are huge fans, obviously. Also, he’s been kind of in the family for maybe now 10 years. So when we found out that what he – we invited him to speak about AI and creativity at the Planetarium, one of our Planetarium events. And then we said, “well, do you want to do a dome experience? Because this would be an incredible [oppurtunity].”

[00:09:12] Diliana: First, it’s Miami. Second, it’s deep because it engages a lot of conversations around hip hop but it’s also viral because it’s the, you know, it’s the Drake versus Kendrick Lamar controversy and it’s also utilizing generative AI and what’s happening now by [a] really smart, beautiful creator. So, so all of it kind of aligned.

[00:09:35] Helen: I love that. And this festival reflects and embraces so much innovation and the boundary pushing and everyone’s learning from each other. Like one of the immersive panels earlier was like the panels on stage were learning from the other experiment. So that was really special.

[00:09:51] Helen: So if you want, the audience to remember one thing about the festival, what would that one thing be about the festival that you’d like them to walk away with?

[00:09:59] Diliana: Oh, that anybody can be a creator with a special democratization of technology that’s happening right now. You can come and explore it.

[00:10:09] Diliana: And you can meet a lot of people that you can collaborate with and learn from. So don’t just experience but also create. I think creativity would be one of the points that saves the humanity I feel because we are on this verge of, we continue existing as we are or at all. And that’s a dark conversation that we also kind of put into, weaved into the festival. We sugarcoated it a lot with a lot of fun and and then hopefully that was a message that was taken away as well. So yes, come play with us.

[00:10:39] Helen: I’m playing in the Playground of Possibility, come play! It’s in Miami. Have fun! So thank you so much for having us here. It’s such an honor and this is my first time at Filmgate and it definitely will not be my last time. So thank you, Diliana.

[00:10:53] Diliana: I can’t wait to have you back and come create with us in the Playground of Possibilities.

[00:10:58] Helen: Amazing, perfect. Okay, we got it.

[00:10:59] Helen: So this is a live podcast recording for Creativity Squared, which is a podcast that explores the intersection of AI and creativity. My name is Helen Todd. I’m the founder and host, and I couldn’t be more excited, to introduce my guest today, King Willonius. Welcome to Creativity Squared.

[00:11:23] Helen: And I also just want to say a big thank you to Diliana Alexander, the co founder and executive producer and the entire team at the FilmGate Miami Interactive Festival, for this amazing content, speakers, and just for having us be here today. So we have a short session. So we’re going to dive right in, but Will, this has been an amazing year for you.

[00:11:48] Helen: One of your AI created songs, BBL Drizzy went viral. You made the Time 100 AI 2024 list and here at one of the top 10 immersive film festivals in the world, I gave us a sneak peek of a musical of the same name of BBL Drizzy. So I kind of want this to be a time [capsule] of this moment in time right now.

[00:12:10] Helen: You’re not the only guest on my show where AI has changed the trajectory of their career. So how are you feeling right now in this moment in time?

[00:12:20] King Wilonius: Ecstatic. You know, this has been, like you said, like an amazing year. So, so much has happened. Yeah, just very grateful, you know, but very grateful and thankful for all the experiences that I’ve had this year.

[00:12:32] Helen: One thing I definitely want to talk about is manifesting because in a lot of ways, this is why I’m here today too. But let’s start from August of 2023. Also your birthday, where did this crazy adventure begin? And we’re starting the domino at Burning Man. So tell us the story.

[00:12:50] King Wilonius: Yeah. you know, as we talk like back and forth, I felt like Burning Man was like a big start of everything that kind of happened.

[00:12:59] King Wilonius: I was at Burning Man the year that the mud flood or whatever, it rained. And for me, it was just such a very magical experience. I was very grateful to be out there. Like after it rained, it was like a huge double rainbow that appeared over the playa. But, yeah, I always say that, like, I don’t know if my year would have went the way it went had I not been to Burning Man, just because being out there felt so magical.

[00:13:24] King Wilonius: So I felt like I understood what magic felt like. So, you know, as things were kind of manifesting this year, there were a lot of times where I was like, Oh, this feels like that burning man magic or energy that happens out there that only, you know, most people that experience that they kind of know about it, but if you don’t really go out there, you might not know what that feels like.

[00:13:45] King Wilonius: I don’t know. Maybe you do outside of it, but I definitely know that there’s like a… There’s like this… People that go there, they just they know what that magic is, you know, so yeah, and then things have just been. It’s like every month something really interesting or cool happens and I don’t know how to explain it.

[00:14:02] King Wilonius: It just, it just happens, you know, like, you know, a lot of these things happened, without like management or, you know, me trying to run ads and just, you know, things constantly going viral. And I just feel very blessed.

[00:14:15] Helen: Tell me about how you think about vibration because that came up when we first met too.

[00:14:19] King Wilonius: Yeah. Okay, so this is like a thought that I’ve been playing with that I kinda… I don’t know. It’s just something I assume. So I feel like when you, you have to raise yourself to like a certain vibration or frequency, however you want to call it in order to like, just be I guess seen like if you’re not vibrating on a certain level and that people that are on that level just don’t even see you.

[00:14:43] King Wilonius: So whether it be like, okay, I’m an artist or I’m, you know, I go to the gym or whatever it is like but you have to essentially raise your vibration. You do that through just like constant action and then belief and whatnot. The belief comes from just you seeing what you want and and then knowing that it’s possible, and then you act on that thing.

[00:15:04] King Wilonius: And then two things too, is just like, I feel like there’s two sides of it. So like there’s belief and then there’s knowing. So I think that when you act or you are in this space of like knowing, that’s when things really manifest because like, beliefs can be changed, right? Where like tomorrow, I believe it might be cold or I believe it could rain.

[00:15:24] King Wilonius: We don’t know, but I know that the sun’s going to come up. I know that at a certain point it’s going to get dark. So like, I feel like that’s like the big shift that happened for me in this, you know, this past year.

[00:15:35] Helen: And that was Burning Man that kicked off that shift?

[00:15:38] King Wilonius: You know, Burning Man was like a checkpoint, you know? So like a video game. Once you reach that checkpoint, you don’t go [back past that that checkpoint again].

[00:15:51] Helen: Well, I know that there was a session here at the FilmGate Festival that was talking about immersive experiences and what that definition means and really Burning Man is probably the most amazing immersive experience.

[00:16:05] Helen: For me, it was like being as close to [being] on another planet as I can ever be. But this is about you today. so we’ve come really close before having like a breakout before. And so Burning Man happened, it set you on this new trajectory and then BBL Drizzy happened. So tell us the story. And for those who might not know, what BBL and what Drizzy and what the Kendrick whole thing is, fill us all in and tell us the story.

[00:16:35] King Wilonius: Yeah, so a BBL is just a Brazilian butt lift. I mean, they’re really popular here in Miami. I think a lot of people know about that.

[00:16:44] Helen: I didn’t until I listened to the song.

[00:16:45] King Wilonius: Yeah. So, and then, you know, the song came about because of this Drake, Kendrick beef that happened. Rick Ross and Drake were kind of going at it.

[00:16:53] King Wilonius: And then Rick Ross said that Drake has like fake abs and he started calling him BBL Drizzy. So, it was trending one day on Twitter and then I made a song about it and it just went viral for like two days. And then like two weeks later, it went viral again. Which doesn’t really happen a lot of times when things go viral, you know?

[00:17:13] King Wilonius: So like, but the second time it went viral, it went like mega viral to the point where it was everywhere. People literally have gotten married to this song BBL Drizzy, which is insane for like somebody to get married to a comedy song. But, you know, I think that’s one of the things when, when we kind of like, as we talk about like manifesting, like, you don’t really know how big a thing can get.

[00:17:37] King Wilonius: So, what I’m kind of like learning throughout the process is like, you just, you kind of get married to like a feeling and then the feeling is, for me, it’s just like gratitude and you just being very grateful and then everything else, your reality kind of shapes and I guess morphs to like be in alignment to like how you feel.

[00:17:59] Helen: Well, and one thing. So how we got connected was through, shout out to Dustin Callif, who runs Tool and they do really innovative AI stuff and work with AI artists. And one of the things that he said is that you’re really good about tapping into cultural moments and give us an idea of how fast you made this song and how you made this song with AI.

[00:18:22] King Wilonius: Yeah. So, I made this, I wrote all the lyrics and I use AI to kind of like create the sound that I wanted. So like prompting the specific sound, which is like a Motown type sound. Everything took me about, I want to say maybe 20, 30 minutes in essence.

[00:18:38] King Wilonius: So like I had to write the song. I wrote a song really fast. And then prompted it and then created the AI image that is like the cover art because I wanted it to look like it was made in the 70s. And then I put it together in Adobe Premiere so I can like just have the song and everything playing.

[00:18:58] King Wilonius: And then exported it and uploaded it. So like that whole process, I want to say about about 30 minutes, like the whole thing. So.

[00:19:04] Helen: I love that. And 30 minutes changed the trajectory of your career, that’s amazing. Congratulations.

[00:19:11] King Wilonius: Well, you know, it’s just like, I find that like I’ve, I’ve listened to like artists sometimes where they talk about like, you know, they, their breakout song is something that was like an accident or, you know, they didn’t, I think when you, when you’re operating like that, you don’t have time to like overthink.

[00:19:25] King Wilonius: And a lot of times when you’re creating, whether it be like, I write scripts and whatnot, like what stops a lot of writers or creators is like that, that editor brain. So it’s like, you have two brains. One is just like the creative, which is just, it’s almost like just a vomit dump. And you’re not overthinking and the editor brain wants to like second guess everything.

[00:19:42] King Wilonius: So it’s like, “Oh, well maybe you” And that stops a lot of people from just being their most true creative self. So I’ve gotten a lot better in like muting or turning that voice down or just not listening to it, you know, and and just trying to be – just trusting my intuition more.

[00:19:57] Helen: I love that you listen to your intuition and one of the interviews I listened to to prep for this is, your one with Baratunde, which I really recommend that interview. Shout out to him.

[00:20:10] Helen: But one of the interesting things too, which I didn’t put it in the introduction for the stage is that you’re a comedian first. And I love how prolific you are and aren’t scared to just put so many ideas out there. So walk us through how comedy has informed your storytelling.

[00:20:26] King Wilonius: Yeah. Well, you know, with comedy, it’s just like you, you have to get comfortable being uncomfortable, and being comfortable failing.

[00:20:34] King Wilonius: So, you know, when you start out being a comedian, you suck. And then you go, you keep going on stage and then you suck less and less and less and less until the point where you actually start to get good or okay, and then you start to get good. So, but that’s just a process in life, you know? It’s like anytime you try something new, you’re not going to be the best at it.

[00:20:56] King Wilonius: You know, if you’re okay with saying like, “I don’t know what I’m doing and I’m probably going to suck at this for a little while or maybe a long time, but I’m going to keep working with the intention that I’m going to get good at it,” and eventually it just everything – I feel like our brains and minds are so powerful, right?

[00:21:14] King Wilonius: And it’s designed to figure things out. So as long as you don’t give up, you’ll come up on the other side. So that’s where I kind of just approach everything. I’m like, I’m okay with sucking. A lot of it juat played because, well, part of it was because nobody was really watching what I was doing, so that takes a lot of pressure off where it’s just like – so like a lot of people, it’s just like, you know, everybody wants to be the biggest thing, but like, you have to have like that incubation period where you can just suck and it’s okay.

[00:21:44] King Wilonius: You know, like, if I put out something really terrible now, there might be a little bit more pressure where, you know, maybe I might get, I might disappoint a lot of people, but I still don’t care, like, because it’s just like, end of the day, the only person you need to impress is yourself, you know, and, and I’m okay with what I do, so there’s no pressure.

[00:22:04] Helen: I love that. And tell us about BBL Drizzy and the evolution of this song. Because it’s powered by AI and the human side, you wrote the lyrics, the AI side, you’ve collaborated for the rest, but what have you done with that song? And then it’s partly why we’re here today. But yeah, what did you do with it after it went viral?

[00:22:26] King Wilonius: Yeah. So, one, I made like a hundred different versions of it, so, cause I have like a BBL Drizzy, this is a Motown version, but I have like a gospel, yacht Rock, K-pop, like, you name it. I just was trying to explore as much as I can. But, like, my background was always comedy and writing.

[00:22:45] King Wilonius: So, a lot of people just know me now. They’re like, “oh, you’re a producer or you’re just this AI guy.” And I was like, I only got into AI because of the writer’s strike. Like, had the writer’s strike not happened, I would have still been trying to break into the industry as a writer. But –

[00:23:00] Helen: Can you tell the audience what you said on our pre call of like, your how you made that decision?

[00:23:07] King Wilonius: Oh yeah, I was going back and forth whether or not, because, you know, the writer’s right was partly because of AI. And I was really apprehensive. I was like, I don’t want to get blackballed by the WGA by leaning into AI and I’ll never be able to work. And then I sat there in my room one day and I was like, “well, let me count all the checks that I’ve got from the WGA.”

[00:23:28] King Wilonius: And it was zero. So I was like, “you know what, I don’t have anything to lose.” So a lot of times it’s just leaning into like, not having anything to lose and like, [at the] end of the day as I think we live this life to be our best selves and experiment, you know what I’m saying? Like, if you’re trying to play life safe, I don’t think you can fully experience life, you know, so you gotta go to places that you’ve never been before.

[00:23:52] King Wilonius: Be in uncomfortable situations because that’s where the real growth is. So yeah, so I was just like, all right, well, we got BBL Drizzy. I want to show people that I can write. So I was like, let’s do BBL Drizzy The Musical. And I started writing it as an audio drama. And then, I was talking to Deliana and Jaco and they were like, “you could do it as a planetarium experience.”

[00:24:14] King Wilonius: And I was like, “what!?” So, and that kind of goes back to the whole manifest thing. Cause I’ve been wanting to do a planetarium experience for years, like I used to go to the Frost Museum and watch their laser shows and I was like, “man I would just love to one day just be able to do something in there,” and then it kind of happened this year you know, so again that whole Burning Man magic was just around me. So like, a part of it too is just like asking for the things that you want, you know like sometimes we don’t do that.

[00:24:41] King Wilonius: So yeah, so then BBL Drizzy musical came. I wrote the script. It’s like 45 pages. And then, and yeah, and then next year we’ll be debuting it.

[00:24:52] Helen: So how we connected was through Dustin, like I said, I was like, “Oh, he sounds really interesting. Will you connect me to bring on the show?” And we hopped on zoom and we hit it off really quickly.

[00:25:04] Helen: And I was like, “you know, I’ve been wanting to go Miami. I have a crazy idea. Why don’t we do this podcast [there]?” Like, I love it. I was like, really? And because I’ve been wanting to go. And then we hopped on the call with Diliana and she’s like, “yes, come.” So I feel like in a lot of ways, us meeting here today has been manifested too.

[00:25:22] King Wilonius: You know, I just think – I believe this very strongly. I think we live in a very magical place, the earth, whatever you want to call this place; it’s very magical, but a lot of times it’s just like we just have to, almost like a radio dial, just like fine tune or tune ourselves into whatever type of alignment so that this magic can happen.

[00:25:42] King Wilonius: But what happens is, we either get distracted or we allow our fears to not let the thing we want to come towards us, you know? So like again, like me for the planetarium and just like asking, had I been fearful, I would have maybe not said anything, you know, I’m like, “oh, I can’t ask them,” but they don’t have to. FilmGate has done that for me throughout pretty much my whole carrer.

[00:26:05] King Wilonius: Like my first short film that I made, I just asked him one day, I was like, “yo, I need a RED camera.” And they was like, “we got one for you.” And I was like, “what!?” So then we did another film. So a lot of times it’s really just being comfortable, just asking for what you want.

[00:26:18] Helen: The playa provides.

[00:26:19] King Wilonius: The playa provides, right? That’s something we learned at Burning Man. Yeah.

[00:26:23] Helen: So, tell us since we got a sneak peek, about the inspiration for the storyline of the musical version, how much of it was influenced by your experience this year, kind of breaking out, having your big breakout moment or, yeah, give us a little bit more
[00:26:38] King Wilonius: Oh for the musical?

[00:26:39] Helen: For the musical.

[00:26:40] King Wilonius: Oh nah, it’s based off of Dune. Like I’ve watched Dune 27 times, Dune 2 and I just wanted to make something that was like, inspired by that and the whole Drake Kendrick [beef]. So it was literally like Dune meets hip-hop, Drake and Kendrick beef. So, everything, if you watch Dune, it’s literally that, you know. So like Spice kind of rules the world of Dune.

[00:27:07] King Wilonius: In my short, it’s ruled by clout. So it’s like the social media creator has to get clout in order to save the world. He becomes a BBL Drizzy. So, yeah.

[00:27:17] Helen: I did not know that. I’m a huge fan of Denny Villanova.

[00:27:21] King Wilonius: Oh yeah, yeah.

[00:27:22] Helen: So I’m more excited. Okay, so we’re short on time and I want to make sure I get some of my questions.

[00:27:28] Helen: I had a gal, Shira Lazar, on my show. She does What’s Trending, another great, creator economy, content that she does. And the future is the creator economy. I have a whole book that I’m writing next year called Farewell The Information Age, Welcome To The Imagination Age, but one thing that came out of that conversation is, I think there’s like less than 10%, it might be less than 5 percent, of the creators make over $100,000 a year.

[00:27:55] Helen: So if this is the future and everyone’s going to be a creator with all these AI tools, how, where’s the opportunity to make money? So I want to hear your experience of that side, because I don’t feel like people talk about the financial side of being a creator.

[00:28:09] Helen: So can you tell us a little bit about your experience with that?

[00:28:11] King Wilonius: Yeah. I’ve been able to kind of just monetize and make money from the things that I’ve created, but I think we were talking about this yesterday, I always tell people because I’ve had a lot of people come up to me and they were like, I want to start creating.

[00:28:23] King Wilonius: And, this is my belief is just like, the more you create, the more opportunities you create for yourself. So the best thing you can do right now, because it is a creator economy is start creating, you know, and don’t worry. Like, this past year, all I told myself when I left Burning Man, it was like, I’m going to make an AI video every day.

[00:28:43] King Wilonius: I mean every week and that’s it. That’s all. I was like, I’m gonna stay consistent. whatever happens happens. My birthday is 8/24. August 24th. So I was like, this is my Kobe year and I was just, I’m gonna just be very process oriented. And throughout that process, what I just learned is just like, if you just stay consistent and the thing that you want to do, eventually everything will kind of come around.

[00:29:04] King Wilonius: So I didn’t start trying to think I’m going to make money. I just was like, I’m just going to make, create things. So like, you know, there’s a lot of platforms now, like, you know, YouTube is a great resource for like creators to make money off of there.

[00:29:16] King Wilonius: And then, you know, either teaching things or creating products, but you know, we’re in a great space now where if you’re a creator, you can literally make a life for yourself just by using your imagination to think of things that people would enjoy.

[00:29:33] Helen: That is a great tee up for my next question on the imagination age, because I do believe that the power of ideas will be the new currency. And I’m curious what your creative process is or was pre AI and how it is now, because you have so many toys at your disposal, that’s enabling you to make all these immersive and crazy worlds. So, give us a little insight of how AI has empowered your creative abilities, I guess.

[00:30:02] King Wilonius: Yeah, I mean, it’s just allowed me to dream way bigger now, you know, so like that’s probably the biggest thing because I feel like my work ethic is still pretty much the same, but now, you know, like doing an experience in the planetarium before it was just like, I don’t know how I’m gonna pull that off. But now you’re just like, okay, we, you know, you can take certain tools and then, like, you can enhance your workflows.

[00:30:25] King Wilonius: You just become way more productive. So instead of having one person work on a thing, you can use AI [and it’s almost like] having like five to 10 people working on a project. So, yeah, having AI just has allowed me to dream way bigger. You know, like, I can make any type of song that I want to make.

[00:30:42] King Wilonius: I can make almost, not all full films, but just like trailers to kind of show people and like, you know, so I just feel very, very empowered.

[00:30:50] Helen: One thing in our conversations that really comes across in and one thing to point out to, I kind of went through this really quick on the introduction, will is on the Time 100 AI list this year, for 2024. And he’s one of the only artists on that list. And it’s under the innovative category of innovators with AI.

[00:31:11] Helen: And, you said like you used to want to break out into Hollywood, but then with the song, you’ve got more attention from the music industry, but really, because you play in all the tools, I think you really represent the future.

[00:31:26] Helen: And like the industries are trying to catch up to what you’re doing because everything’s blurring together. And you’re already embracing that and even here today, like, whether it’s the opera or all these different mediums, they’re all merging together in these tools. So you like really understood the assignment and are playing in the playground of possibility, which I really love.

[00:31:50] Helen: And I think one thing too, that I wanted to make sure to ask you today, because of the seat that you sit in. What, what is your wishlist for the Sam Altman’s, the Mark Zuckerberg’s and all the builders? Because we want to feel good about everything that we’re producing and the way that a lot of these tools came into being of being scraped with artists doesn’t make us feel good.

[00:32:12] Helen: So what is your wishlist to make this more equitable so that we can all thrive?

[00:32:17] King Wilonius: Yeah, I think, and one, to your point too, I feel like the future is definitely fluid, you know? So like the artist spectrum, like we’re going to be able to just kind of tap into so many different things and, where before it’s just like you have to just be a specialist.

[00:32:34] King Wilonius: I think these tools allow us to be like high level generalists. You know, where we can be like, I can do this and that, different industries. But I think the biggest thing I feel is just like had making sure people have a seat at the table, right?

[00:32:48] King Wilonius: Because you know, if I’m stepping into, I don’t know, construction, I need to make sure that I have people that know construction in order to make sure I can properly provide a product or service for these individuals. So if we’re looking at artists or we’re looking at people that, you know, you’re scraping data and doing all these different things, like we need to make sure that, you know, you have artists on the table, make sure that people are properly compensated for their work.

[00:33:17] King Wilonius: And, I think we just need to make sure the community is being taken care of.

[00:33:23] Helen: And I want to talk about the monetization part again, cause there’s like the YouTube views and we’re really happy that you’re increasing the statistic that I mentioned earlier, but what are the new economic opportunities that AI and even smart contracts and like blockchain are opening up because I think this audience specifically and the Creativity Squared audience would be really curious. Like, how do you see new economic opportunities from the seat that you sit?

[00:33:49] King Wilonius: Oh, yeah. I mean, I think a lot of the traditional ways are still going to work.

[00:33:54] King Wilonius: Definitely like the brand deals and whatnot. But I think the best thing to do, which I do, is jump into your favorite large language model. I love Chat GPT, and develop your strategy of how you want to like monetize for the next five to 10 – I did this like a couple of days ago, everybody, a bunch of my astrology friends were like, “Pluto is going into Aquarius” or something like that.

[00:34:14] King Wilonius: And then I was like, okay, well, this is my bio. This is what I do. Tell me how I need to, or create a strategy on how I need to monetize and, and do what I need to do according to this astrological thing that’s happening. So I think for like artists, depending on what you [are], like if I’m a comedian. I’ll be like, okay, let’s create a strategy on how I can monetize.

[00:34:36] King Wilonius: Here’s my skill set. Here’s the things that I like to do. And, you know, that to me, that’s like the best way to figure it out. But the traditional ways will never go away. So, you know, brand deals. Create products, create ways to engage with people because right now we’re in a creator economy, but it’s really to me, it’s an attention economy.

[00:34:59] King Wilonius: So like the more you can garner people’s attention, the more money you’ll probably make. You see that with the streamers, like streamers make tons of money now, just because like they have people watching them for 24 hours a day. So they’re just going to, their income potential is like unlimited.

[00:35:14] Helen: We were also kind of talking about the evolution of like, fan fiction and whatnot, but I got a note that we only have three minutes, so we’ll do rapid fire for the last questions. Okay. We’re closing out 2024 breakout year for you. Looking back, if you had to pick your top experience or memory from this year, what is it and why? And looking ahead to 2025, what are you most excited about?

[00:35:41] King Wilonius: I would say BBL Drizzy going viral, working on my comedy album, Unserious. That was really dope. Om’Mos Keith produced it, who won a Grammy for Frank Ocean’s album. So I was like, how did I end up here? And then BBL Drizzy The Musical, like that was like [really cool], cause this is like the ending of the year.

[00:36:02] King Wilonius: So it’s like really cool to be here with FilmGate and Art Basel. So I feel like I’ve had like a full circle moment. And Burning Man. Oh, my gosh. Burning Man was amazing. Geez.

[00:36:10] Helen: Oh, you went this year, too.

[00:36:12] King Wilonius: Yeah, yeah. I’m going every year. Yeah.

[00:36:14] Helen: Amazing. And then next year, we’ll get back on stage and see what happens between now and the actual debut of the full musical. So what are you most excited about going into 2025?

[00:36:27] King Wilonius: Just the unknown. The unknown excites me now because it’s just like that’s… It used to be kind of scary, but now it’s just like you don’t really know what’s going to happen, like you just – My quote this year has always been like, “good intentions, but no expectations.”

[00:36:42] King Wilonius: So that’s all you can do really in life. It’s just like go in with like, I’m gonna do my best. I’m gonna try my hardest, but whatever happens, kind of just happens. So, you know, when you don’t have expectations, you don’t get disappointed. So I just be like, all right, so yeah, I’m excited about just like the unknown and what can potentially manifest this year.

[00:37:02] Helen: Amazing. And I always like to ask all of my guests, if you want the audience that’s live here or listening or watching online to remember one thing, what is that one thing that you want them to walk away with?

[00:37:15] King Wilonius: You got this, you got this man. Like, I honestly, like, you know, this year has been such an amazing year.

[00:37:21] King Wilonius: And I feel like the success that I’ve had, I feel like everybody can have that, you know, it’s just how you just believe or know that you can have it. And then yeah, I tell people all the time, like that’s been my thing. I’m like, you got this. Just believe and, and work from that point of your belief.

[00:37:41] King Wilonius: You know what I’m saying? Like, put yourself in that space and then just do the damn thing. Ad things just kinda… it’s like, life’s like water. It just, it moves out the way and it does what it needs to do.

[00:37:51] Helen: I think Jackie Chan has a really good quote about “be like water.”

[00:37:55] King Wilonius: Yeah, that’s it, man.

[00:37:57] Helen: Well, congratulations.

[00:37:59] King Wilonius: Thank you.

[00:37:59] Helen: I feel like you’re just scratching the surface. And the more that these tools, like, evolve, that your playground and your possibilities are just going to evolve too. And I’m so excited to see what you do. So thank you. Thank you to FilmGate. Thank you to Diliana. And, I know we could keep talking on and on, but they have a show to do, so thank you everyone for being in the audience today too.

[00:38:20] King Wilonius: Appreciate yall, thank you.

[00:38:26] Helen: Thank you for spending some time with us today. We’re just getting started and would love your support. Subscribe to Creativity Squared on your preferred podcast platform and leave a review. It really helps. And I’d love to hear your feedback. What topics are you thinking about and want to dive into more?

[00:38:41] Helen: I invite you to visit CreativitySquared.com. And while you’re there, be sure to sign up for our free weekly newsletter so you can easily stay on top of all the latest news at the intersection of AI and creativity. Because it’s so important to support artists, 10 percent of all revenue Creativity Squared generates will go to Arts Wave, a nationally recognized nonprofit that supports over 100 arts organizations.

[00:39:06] Helen: Become a premium newsletter subscriber or leave a tip on the website to support this project and Arts Wave. And premium newsletter subscribers will receive NFTs of episode cover art and more extras to say thank you for helping bring my dream to life. And a big, big thank you to everyone who’s offered their time, energy, and encouragement and support so far.

[00:39:28] Helen: I really appreciate it from the bottom of my heart. This show is produced and made possible by the team at Play Audio Agency. Until next week, keep creating.